That Feminist Gamer Girl Did a Thing (DERAILED)

[Elija2]

No, I don't.

Well then I think you're a little bit naive. Stereotypes affect everything we do whether we're aware of them or not. It's pretty obvious that Zelda was written to be a damsel in distress which is exclusively a female stereotype.

I brought it up cause you insisted on replacing women with objects.
Well what if the developer wanted it to be a woman? That's his/her choice.

If that's their choice then they should have a good reason for the woman getting kidnapped other than just so that the hero can rescue her. In Mario, Peach is nothing but an object to be rescued. All she does is sit and let herself be captured, and then she sits and waits for her rescue. She never does anything meaningful throughout the entire game. She could just as easily be replaced with a made-up object and the game would be no different, and that's sad because it means that she's no better than a made-up object.

[Hakudamashi]

Well then I think you're a little bit naive. Stereotypes affect everything we do whether we're aware of them or not. It's pretty obvious that Zelda was written to be a damsel in distress which is exclusively a female stereotype.

For me, the seterotype itself is not my concern, I only harp on it if they start and stop at that and do nothing else with it. And even then, it's not a big deal to me if the game itself is fun.

If that's their choice then they should have a good reason for the woman getting kidnapped other than just so that the hero can rescue her. In Mario, Peach is nothing but an object to be rescued. All she does is sit and let herself be captured, and then she sits and waits for her rescue. She never does anything meaningful throughout the entire game. She could just as easily be replaced with a made-up object and the game would be no different, and that's sad because it means that she's no better than a made-up object.

I think that's unnecessarily harsh. The mainline Mario games aren't up for grand story, they instead go for characterisation in subtle movements, which is enough for most people. Mario and Bowser can't interact with an object like they can with Peach, simply calling her an object is uncalled for.

And then we're given the Mario spin-offs where they put more effort into their characterisations, you can't characterise an object.

And to your earlier request, I remembered 4 examples.
Super Mario Bros. 3
The 7 kings get turned into animals by the Koopa Kids, they were completely helpless till Mario came to save them. Tey were soo helpless, the Koopas didn't even bother to raid their castles...

God of War
There is a puzzle, where a man is trapped in a cage, helpless, and he can't get out.  You then have to push this helpless man up a hill and into an incinerator to get the door to open, despite all his pleas and cries for you to spare him.

The Hobbit part 2
All the dwarves, who were all men were captured by the Elf people. They were completely helpless and at the mercy of that one female elf who was watching over them. They had to just sit there till that Hobbit guy had to come and rescue them.

One Piece
Fire Fist Ace, after getting beaten into submission and captured by Blackbeard, was completely helpless and had to accept his death at the hand of the marines. Then his little brother Luffy went to try to rescue him, to no avail because he died anyway.

Now that I think about it, there are a lot of movies and stuff vague in my mind where whenever the man gets captured, more often than not they get tortured to death, is there a trope for that?

[Chimmy Chonga]

Remember when Anita Sarkeesian lied about contacting the police? Ohohoh and remember that time she lied about receiving death threats then asked for donations? That was funi.

[Hakudamashi]

I don't follow Anita, so no.

[Elija2]

For me, the seterotype itself is not my concern, I only harp on it if they start and stop at that and do nothing else with it. And even then, it's not a big deal to me if the game itself is fun.

That's what I'm saying though, they never do anything else with Peach and they rarely do anything else with Zelda.

I think that's unnecessarily harsh. The mainline Mario games aren't up for grand story, they instead go for characterisation in subtle movements, which is enough for most people. Mario and Bowser can't interact with an object like they can with Peach, simply calling her an object is uncalled for.

What kind of interactions do Mario and Bowser have with Peach? Mario looks in horror as Peach is getting kidnapped. Bowser laughs and says that Peach is all his. Mario saves the day and rescues Peach. Replace "Peach" with "the magical space rock" and it would still fit. Oh wait, Mario gets a kiss on the cheek at the end. Great.

Now that I think about it, there are a lot of movies and stuff vague in my mind where whenever the man gets captured, more often than not they get tortured to death, is there a trope for that?

I don't think that's a very common trope but even if it is the man usually gets more characterization than a woman would in the same situation.

Remember when Anita Sarkeesian lied about contacting the police? Ohohoh and remember that time she lied about receiving death threats then asked for donations? That was funi.

No I don't but please continue making shit up if it makes you feel better.

[Hakudamashi]

That's what I'm saying though, they never do anything else with Peach and they rarely do anything else with Zelda.

Why should they? Really?
They're game characters with their roles as you play through the game. If you wanna switch them up, why stop there? Why not also make Ganondorf your sideikick in one game? Or Toad be a hard boiled cop that doesn't play by the rules? Or the Kokiri form a family band? Or Luigi overthrow the mushroom kingdom?

Because that's what spin-offs are for, and they do that, when they're ready and comfortable, and /want/ to do it.
You're just gonna ignore Peach in Super Paper Mario and Mario RPG? You gonna ignore Zelda in Hyrule Warriors? You gonna ignore the both of them in Super Smash Bros.?

What kind of interactions do Mario and Bowser have with Peach? Mario looks in horror as Peach is getting kidnapped. Bowser laughs and says that Peach is all his. Mario saves the day and rescues Peach. Replace "Peach" with "the magical space rock" and it would still fit. Oh wait, Mario gets a kiss on the cheek at the end. Great.

Mario went on a vacation with her, hot air balloon ride, she bakes him cake, he shows up to her parties, they hold hands, fly gently into the sunset, and even sat in a tree together and took pictures.
Doing that with a rock would be very creepy and very sad.

I don't think that's a very common trope but even if it is the man usually gets more characterization than a woman would in the same situation.

Oh it is just as common I bet, Military movies and games do it all the time. And no, their characterization isn't any better
"I'm the tough guy who ain't gonna talk no matter what, and was apparently best friends with the main character I knew for 5 minutes"
And what about all those Old Kings that have to get saved in JRPGs?
"Save me cause I'm the king" who's personality is either a jolly Santa, or an abusive dick.

[Maddiekinns]

Whoa do you guys mind if I say a few words? I started reading though this and I'm shocked. Not upset, really, just shocked. I HOPE I am on the same page as you all, if not, just ignore me lmao.

The damsel in distress thing is just for story, always keep that in mind. It's a video game, not real life. I could see where someone would be upset if they took that damsel in distress idealism and applied it to real life situations; I would be upset too if someone thought I couldn't fight for myself and they had to fight for me. However I wouldn't straight out consider it sexist.
As for the Anita thing, yeah she hates video games so she decides to run her mouth about it without knowing too much about the subject. That's a given, when someone doesn't like something, they'll express that. We do it here all the time, and I'm not going to count myself out from that. Boy if I hate something I'll go on and on about it forever.

That's my two cents, I hope it wasn't rude and I apologize if it was. 

[Chimmy Chonga]

No I don't but please continue making shit up if it makes you feel better.

Yes, because I totally made it up.

[jkid101094]

If Elija and Anita had babies would they automatically be upgraded to Social Justice Paladins or would they have to grind on single fathers first?

[shadowDOESrock]

No I don't but please continue making shit up if it makes you feel better.

[Hakudamashi]

inb4corruptpolice.

[Elija2]

Why should they? Really?
They're game characters with their roles as you play through the game. If you wanna switch them up, why stop there? Why not also make Ganondorf your sideikick in one game? Or Toad be a hard boiled cop that doesn't play by the rules? Or the Kokiri form a family band? Or Luigi overthrow the mushroom kingdom?

Their role is to constantly be the damsel in distress, which is a sexist trope.

Because that's what spin-offs are for, and they do that, when they're ready and comfortable, and /want/ to do it.
You're just gonna ignore Peach in Super Paper Mario and Mario RPG? You gonna ignore Zelda in Hyrule Warriors? You gonna ignore the both of them in Super Smash Bros.?

I'm not ignoring the spinoffs, but that's not what we're talking about. Everyone is usually equal in the spinoffs, but why do they get shafted in the main games?

Mario went on a vacation with her, hot air balloon ride, she bakes him cake, he shows up to her parties, they hold hands, fly gently into the sunset, and even sat in a tree together and took pictures.
Doing that with a rock would be very creepy and very sad.

None of those interactions hinge on Peach being kidnapped. Her kidnapping literally serves no point other than to be the lazy motivation for Mario (which could be anything) and the reward at the end of the game (which could be anything).

Oh it is just as common I bet, Military movies and games do it all the time. And no, their characterization isn't any better
"I'm the tough guy who ain't gonna talk no matter what, and was apparently best friends with the main character I knew for 5 minutes"
And what about all those Old Kings that have to get saved in JRPGs?
"Save me cause I'm the king" who's personality is either a jolly Santa, or an abusive dick.

In military movies the men being kidnapped are portrayed as tough and brave, not weak and helpless.

The damsel in distress thing is just for story, always keep that in mind. It's a video game, not real life. I could see where someone would be upset if they took that damsel in distress idealism and applied it to real life situations; I would be upset too if someone thought I couldn't fight for myself and they had to fight for me. However I wouldn't straight out consider it sexist.

But that's the thing, videogames don't exist in a vacuum. These sexist beliefs are already common in the real world, and when media constantly uses these sexist tropes they're perpetuating these beliefs. Many people honestly do believe that women need to be protected by men. Why do you think men hitting a woman is stigmatized? Because it's a common belief that women are naturally weaker than men.

As for the Anita thing, yeah she hates video games so she decides to run her mouth about it without knowing too much about the subject. That's a given, when someone doesn't like something, they'll express that. We do it here all the time, and I'm not going to count myself out from that. Boy if I hate something I'll go on and on about it forever.

Why do you think she hates videogames? Because she's being critical of them? She even says in her videos that it's totally fine to like videogames that use sexist tropes. And yet there are people like Stachekip who think she's out to ruin videogames.

Yes, because I totally made it up.

Those excuses for that image being a fake death threat are hilarious. "Oh, she wasn't logged in!" So what? "No search was done!" She didn't have to search to find that person if they were directly tweeting at her. "That person created an account to only tweet at Anita!" Well yeah, what's strange about a crazy harasser doing that? "Oh, the person didn't make any spelling errors!" Come on. And that guy seriously thinks that wanting to bite Anita's neck and drink her blood isn't a threat because it's a "feminine vampire fantasy." Do you seriously believe this shit? Anita getting constant death threats is public knowledge.

That second article even says at the bottom that she did contact the police, but here's more proof for you. And Feminist Frequency is a 501(c)3 non-profit, donations are how her website survives.

Also, lol at sourcing Return of Kings. That's one of the most sexist sites I've ever seen. Look at this shit. No wonder they're trying to come up with any reason they can think of to hate Anita.

[Hakudamashi]

Their role is to constantly be the damsel in distress, which is a sexist trope.

Y'know what? I just fail to see what the problem is. A person is in peril, I go save them, gameplay ensues.

I'm not ignoring the spinoffs, but that's not what we're talking about. Everyone is usually equal in the spinoffs, but why do they get shafted in the main games?

Shafted? How are they shafted? They play an integral role, if nothing else than to get the game started. If anyone's "shafted" It's Luigi, always relugated to "the other one". In New Super Mario Bros. U, player 1 can't even select him or the Toads when playing by himself, cause they're not cool enough or something, why can't they beat Bowser and save the princess on their own? Nope, Mario's gotta do everything.

None of those interactions hinge on Peach being kidnapped. Her kidnapping literally serves no point other than to be the lazy motivation for Mario (which could be anything) and the reward at the end of the game (which could be anything).

Now you lost me.
Those interactions, if anything, signifies that Mario and Peach really care for each other, and thus, Mario ain't rescuing her cause he's some chivalrous knight bound by duty, he's rescuing her cause he really cares. He's the only one to spring to action to all her kidnappings consistently. His motivation is cause he cares, and those interactions show us he cares.
And even in any of the spin-offs, Mario only springs to action to save the day after Peach asks him to.

In military movies the men being kidnapped are portrayed as tough and brave, not weak and helpless.

Is that not just as much as sexist stereotype? They only know how to kill people and be vulgar, not good role models if you ask me.

But that's the thing, videogames don't exist in a vacuum. These sexist beliefs are already common in the real world, and when media constantly uses these sexist tropes they're perpetuating these beliefs. Many people honestly do believe that women need to be protected by men. Why do you think men hitting a woman is stigmatized?

And many women believe men don't have feelings, and are made to do their bidding. There are also women who believe men can't be sexually harassed nor raped, and that as long as they're pretty, they can get away with anything. 

Because it's a common belief that women are naturally weaker than men.

Dude, no, Biology states human females are naturally weaker than human males.
If you take a man, and a woman, put them under the same conditions, with the same motivation, same way of thinking, same training, same dedication, and had them wrestle, the man will overpower her on equal ground.

[Elija2]

Y'know what? I just fail to see what the problem is. A person is in peril, I go save them, gameplay ensues.

Because it's a trope used in 90% of videogames that normalizes sexist beliefs. Imagine if in 90% of videogames the bad guy was a poor black man who deals illegal drugs, mugs innocent people, and loves friend chicken. These are all negative black stereotypes, but would you say "What's the problem? The person is a bad guy, I go kill them, and gameplay ensues" or would you point out the racism?

Shafted? How are they shafted? They play an integral role, if nothing else than to get the game started. If anyone's "shafted" It's Luigi, always relugated to "the other one". In New Super Mario Bros. U, player 1 can't even select him or the Toads when playing by himself, cause they're not cool enough or something, why can't they beat Bowser and save the princess on their own? Nope, Mario's gotta do everything.

Their integral role is to get kidnapped and do nothing. In every game.

Now you lost me.
Those interactions, if anything, signifies that Mario and Peach really care for each other, and thus, Mario ain't rescuing her cause he's some chivalrous knight bound by duty, he's rescuing her cause he really cares. He's the only one to spring to action to all her kidnappings consistently. His motivation is cause he cares, and those interactions show us he cares.
And even in any of the spin-offs, Mario only springs to action to save the day after Peach asks him to.

Well yeah, obviously the game tells us about how much they love each other because that's their excuse for having Mario save Peach all the time. It's a dumb over-used excuse and what it boils down to is just another damsel in distress trope.

Is that not just as much as sexist stereotype? They only know how to kill people and be vulgar, not good role models if you ask me.

Killing people is a male power fantasy. People see dudes killing bad guys and they think "Wow, that dude is badass." No woman sees Peach being kidnapped and goes "Wow, what an awesome character."

And many women believe men don't have feelings, and are made to do their bidding. There are also women who believe men can't be sexually harassed nor raped, and that as long as they're pretty, they can get away with anything. 

Those stereotypes are mainly perpetuated by other men though. When men see other guys being emotional they say "Stop being such a pussy." and that creates a stigma that men can't have feelings. When men hear about other men being raped they go "Whatever, I bet he enjoyed it." and that creates a stigma that men can't be raped or that they enjoy being raped. Women rarely perpetuate these stereotypes.

Dude, no, Biology states human females are naturally weaker than human males.
If you take a man, and a woman, put them under the same conditions, with the same motivation, same way of thinking, same training, same dedication, and had them wrestle, the man will overpower her on equal ground.

That's not the point. Men think that you shouldn't hit a woman because they are weaker, but hitting a weaker man is okay. This is common because media constantly portrays women as helpless victims and men as their heroes.

[shadowDOESrock]

Because it's a trope used in 90% of videogames that normalizes sexist beliefs.

90%?
I hope you realise how dumb that actually was.

Women rarely perpetuate these stereotypes.

Someone clearly doesnt read the comment sections of tabloid media.