Do you support Knuxtikal?

EchidnaPower · February 07, 2010, 06:45:56 PM

Quote from: Mau on February 07, 2010, 08:13:01 AM
Tikal. Is. Dead. End of story. Geesh. And wouldn't she be like, Knuckles' ancester or something?
Go Knuhade! (KnucklesxShade)

A major misconception. Tikal is NOT Knuckles' ancestor. She came from the same tribe, but that doesn't make them related. She had no siblings, no children, just a dad and a grandma. (as far as we know) And again, I don't truly agree with the theory that Tikal is a ghost. Tikal was sealed in the emerald along with Chaos. Now here's where logic takes place. If when the emerald shattered, Tikal was a ghost, shouldn't that make Chaos a ghost as well? Chaos is a mutated chao, but he is still a living-being. The only truly immortal being is God, but I won't go into that. Perhaps she did absorb some emerald power, but I don't think she's truly DEAD. And Shade? I just don't like her. The seriousness that Shade has in her personality would make the air between them too tense. Can you imagine two uptight, duty-driven echidnas together? I believe that Tikal's sweet, kind, and gentle personality would make things a little less tense around Angel Island.

Mau · February 09, 2010, 06:20:44 AM

It was mentioned in Chronicles that Knuckles is the descendent of Pachamac. If Tikal was his only child, as you implied, and Knuckles is his descedent, the logic would imply that Knuckles is also the decendent of Tikal.
And Shade and Knuckles seem to have a great dynamic together. Sure Shade is serious but I don't think Knuckles would want someone around that couldn't hold their own. Not to mention their union would bring the two rival clans together. Sure they might argue sometimes but I think that's true of every couple isn't it?
As for Tikal, she started out being a living being while Chaos is already linked to the power of the Chaos emeralds. He's an entirely different being, said to be the god of destruction by Eggman. So being sealed in the emerald may have been the only way to stop him because he couldn't be killed otherwise. He could only be pacified because of his anger. The entire Knuckles Clan seems to be based on Mayan, Inca and Aztec societies, and didn't they practice human sacrifice? So it seems logical then that Tikal sacificed herself to pacify and trap the "god of destruction" into the master emerald.
I really like Shade though, she's another tough chick that isn't all slutty which I think the games need rather than characters like Cream who are annoying, Rouge who is slutty, and Amy who is too "Sonic centric."

Ioshyriku · February 09, 2010, 08:17:31 AM

Quote from: EchidnaPower on December 23, 2009, 06:53:05 PM
At the moment, I can't see ANY of the characters getting married someday.

why a couple, if the ones who make the couple won't get married someday?

and a problem with KnuxTikal is that, Knuckles and Tikal are related

sorry if I was mean

EchidnaPower · February 09, 2010, 08:34:08 AM

Quote from: Mau on February 09, 2010, 06:20:44 AM
It was mentioned in Chronicles that Knuckles is the descendent of Pachamac. If Tikal was his only child, as you implied, and Knuckles is his descedent, the logic would imply that Knuckles is also the decendent of Tikal.
And Shade and Knuckles seem to have a great dynamic together. Sure Shade is serious but I don't think Knuckles would want someone around that couldn't hold their own. Not to mention their union would bring the two rival clans together. Sure they might argue sometimes but I think that's true of every couple isn't it?
As for Tikal, she started out being a living being while Chaos is already linked to the power of the Chaos emeralds. He's an entirely different being, said to be the god of destruction by Eggman. So being sealed in the emerald may have been the only way to stop him because he couldn't be killed otherwise. He could only be pacified because of his anger. The entire Knuckles Clan seems to be based on Mayan, Inca and Aztec societies, and didn't they practice human sacrifice? So it seems logical then that Tikal sacificed herself to pacify and trap the "god of destruction" into the master emerald.
I really like Shade though, she's another tough chick that isn't all slutty which I think the games need rather than characters like Cream who are annoying, Rouge who is slutty, and Amy who is too "Sonic centric."

I believe the plot has some holes in it. Because if Tikal was Pachacamac's only child, and she was sealed away before having any kids, then Knuckles can't be Pachacamac's descendent. Unless he had another child later on, which is also impossible since Chaos killed him and many of his warriors. Perhaps by "descendent" they meant he came from the clan of Pachacamac. And as for Chaos being the "God of Destruction" I don't believe that. In E-102's Story, Tikal gives the most info so far in the whole game. She defines Chaos as a gentle and loving creature. Now that doesn't sound like the God of Destruction to me. I think the stone tablets that Eggman read were made by a surviving member of the clan who described what he saw. Perfect Chaos destroying all in his path. But that's not what Chaos was meant to be. And Tikal is certainly not a weakling, she would just prefer not to fight. Now here's what I think: Tikal could teach Knuckles to mellow out a little, and Knuckles could teach her how to defend herself more proficiently. And yes, all couples fight. But this is the scenario in my mind: We all know that Knuckles is famous for being stubborn and inflexible. And I'm sure Shade is not much different. Should they get into an argument, neither one of them would be willing to budge on the issue, it could mean total flameout! That's why Shade doesn't seem right. Not to mention Tikal has more in the looks department.

Mau · February 12, 2010, 08:51:21 AM

QuoteI believe the plot has some holes in it. Because if Tikal was Pachacamac's only child, and she was sealed away before having any kids, then Knuckles can't be Pachacamac's descendent. Unless he had another child later on, which is also impossible since Chaos killed him and many of his warriors.

It wouldn't be the first time for a Sonic game to have plot holes in it for sure. So we have to examine the possibilities. Perhaps Tikal did have a child, one that no one knew about. In Ancient cultures, women did marry pretty young compared to nowadays. Or perhaps she got pregnant and had the child hidden away...but then how would Shade have known Knuckles was Pachacamac's descendent?
There was however, no mention of Tikal being married, or having any children, but absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. She could've had a child no one knew about, I always just figured Knuckles was her descendent.
There is also the possibility that Pachacamac could've gotten another female echidna pregnant prior to the destructive wrath of Chaos. I once came up with a story where Tikal had an older brother who, filled with grief for the sacrifice of his sister, and determined that the Knuckles clan not make that mistake again, vowed to protect the master emerald and what became the floating island.
Was there any mention in Sonic Adventure that Tikal was Pachamac's only child? If there was, I probably missed it.

QuotePerhaps by "descendent" they meant he came from the clan of Pachacamac.

That's a possibility, that and Knuckles may not be a direct descendent of Pachacamac.

QuoteAnd as for Chaos being the "God of Destruction" I don't believe that. In E-102's Story, Tikal gives the most info so far in the whole game. She defines Chaos as a gentle and loving creature. Now that doesn't sound like the God of Destruction to me. I think the stone tablets that Eggman read were made by a surviving member of the clan who described what he saw. Perfect Chaos destroying all in his path. But that's not what Chaos was meant to be.

You may have a point there, it's been a long time since I've played Sonic Adventure, I've always just remembered Eggman's dialouge about him being the God of destruction. It may have just been one's interpretation. A surviving echidna would've thought he was a God of destruction the way he reacted, but for harming the Chao in their greed, they kind of deserved it. But I don't think the entire echidna civilization deserved to be destroyed either. It's still A mystery to me how Knuckles survived, perhaps with much of the population wiped out, there could've been a lot of inbreeding and thus lack of genetic variation led the rest to succumb to disease, until maybe one male and female remained (Knuckles' biological parents) who eventually died leaving Knuckles with the task of guarding the Master emerald. (Inbreeding could've explained why he's not the brightest echidna too lol)

QuoteAnd Tikal is certainly not a weakling, she would just prefer not to fight.

I havn't seen her in action so I can't say for sure. She may be able to hold her own, she's certainly got a lot of power, whether she's a ghost or not or simply gained some of the power of the Master Emerald. But I havn't seen her in action so I don't know if she can fight or not.

QuoteNow here's what I think: Tikal could teach Knuckles to mellow out a little, and Knuckles could teach her how to defend herself more proficiently. And yes, all couples fight. But this is the scenario in my mind: We all know that Knuckles is famous for being stubborn and inflexible. And I'm sure Shade is not much different. Should they get into an argument, neither one of them would be willing to budge on the issue, it could mean total flameout! That's why Shade doesn't seem right. Not to mention Tikal has more in the looks department.

Personally, I think it's a big what-if that Tikal and Knuckles would even get together, even if you're right about Tikal being alive. They barely interacted, and showed no sign whatsoever of having any potential feelings for one another. Now, I could argue that Tikal only played a major role in one Sonic game (guest appearances and 2-player mode don't count), but that would sound hypocritical since I'm pro-KnuxShade, and Shade herself only starred in one Sonic game. But let's put it this way and do a comparison. Tikal only seemed concerned with showing the main cast of characters the past. Knuckles didn't even seem to care when he saw the old civilization of echidnas. But when he encountered Shade, he was shocked to find that the Marauders were a surviving clan of echidnas. That meant he wasn't the only living echidna left, he wasn't alone. He had no such reaction of Tikal so that tells me he either, Didn't care, or else she's a ghost, or both.
I also find it kind of interesting that you use Chronicles to support your argument of SonAmy in another thread, but deny it as a valid storyline in your argument against Knuckles being Pachacamac's descendent. Now, I'm kind of guilty in that department as well with SonBlaze versus SilvBlaze, but we can examine here that in the plot of '06 it pretty much not only canceled itself out, but I've pointed out and stressed that SilvBlaze seems more like a brotherly and sisterly relationship. But I'm getting a bit off topic here.
Also, if there is any sign of affection for Tikal and Knuckles, is this from the games, or Sonic X, because I'm not seeing any evidence of there being any affection in the games, not even once. Now granted, like I said before, absense of evidence is not evidence of absense, but there is more evidence to support a possible pairing between Shade and Knuckles than Tikal and Knuckles. What I'm not clear on then, is whether or not you accept Sonic Chronicles as canon.
As far as looks are concerned, I think Shade is very pretty actually, and I think her hairstyle rocks. Now, I'm a straight woman but that doesn't mean I can't admire other women or acknowledge that they're beautiful. Tikal I have no real opinion of, but I suppose I think she's a little too girlly girl for Knuckle's style. (But then again, I used to be a Knux/Julie-su fan, and I know you don't consider the comics relevant, but I suppose I have to admit to being a little hypocritical since Knuckles and Julie-su share a common ancester and that never bothered me. But then again, it's not like Julie-su was Knuckle's great great great great x several generations grandmother either.)
Of course, looks shouldn't be the best argument either. It's all about personality. Besides that, I think Tikal wouldn't be attracted to Knuckle's stubbornness after what she's seen her father and the other male echidnas do in the past, whereas, I think Shade admires Knuckle's strength and determination, and Knuckles admires the same in Shade. Shade also seems very polite and respectful, and also very loyal. Not to say Tikal isn't, but I'm trying to stress qualities in Shade that I think Knuckles would find attractive, and are positive. Personally, I've liked Shade from the get-go (but she doesn't hold a candle to Blaze as being the best female character though. She comes as a close second though IMO)

EchidnaPower · February 13, 2010, 05:05:35 PM

You just love to pick apart my posts don't you? $:-\$ Jk Jk. I'm here trying to argue with an adult, I must be out of my mind. <.< Well anyways, it's still a matter of opinion, but now that I think about it, you probably wouldn't like the Dash Adventure very much.

SonicFan47 · February 13, 2010, 05:15:15 PM

No.
Various in-game references indicate that Tikal is Knuckles' grandmother.

EchidnaPower · February 13, 2010, 05:24:00 PM

Quote from: SonicFan47 on February 13, 2010, 05:15:15 PM
No.
Various in-game references indicate that Tikal is Knuckles' grandmother.

This one is easy to counter. There is no way she can be Knux's relative, since she had no kids.

SonicFan47 · February 13, 2010, 05:25:55 PM

Quote from: EchidnaPower on February 13, 2010, 05:24:00 PM
This one is easy to counter. There is no way she can be Knux's relative, since she had no kids.

Says what source?

EchidnaPower · February 13, 2010, 05:29:09 PM

Quote from: SonicFan47 on February 13, 2010, 05:25:55 PM
Says what source?

If she did have kids, she'd have better things to do than to hang around the emerald shrine. Like taking care of 'em! Besides, she's only 14. And I don't care if Mayan people got married early, SEGA doesn't pay attention to detail to that extent.

SonicFan47 · February 13, 2010, 05:36:14 PM

Quote from: EchidnaPower on February 13, 2010, 05:29:09 PM
If she did have kids, she'd have better things to do than to hang around the emerald shrine. Like taking care of 'em! Besides, she's only 14. And I don't care if Mayan people got married early, SEGA doesn't pay attention to detail to that extent.

Only 14?
I think you're forgetting the bit about the Pachacamac Echidna's stuff being hundreds of years before the bulk of Sonic Adventure. Hundreds (or at least 100) of years is plenty of time for someone to grow beyond 14.
Also, when was Tikal's age officially released?
And that still doesn't answer the question of Knuckles' birth. If he was born on the island, and only a handful of Pachacamac's group survived Chaos' first...eruption? I don't know what the word I'm looking for there is.
But if only a handful survived (to write the prophecy stuff about the god of destrucion) and Knux is the (supposed) last of his race, then what is his heritage?

Gleech · February 14, 2010, 02:46:14 AM

No, (I'm going to get murdered for this...) but I do support Knuckles x Sonia.

Ok, sure, one is a hedgehog and one is an echidna... but that didn't stop you guys from liking, like, Tails x Cream, correct?

But seriously they showed their love in one of the Underground episodes, when Sonia kissed Knuckles. :O

Mau · February 14, 2010, 03:54:49 PM

QuoteYou just love to pick apart my posts don't you? Jk Jk. I'm here trying to argue with an adult, I must be out of my mind. <.< Well anyways, it's still a matter of opinion, but now that I think about it, you probably wouldn't like the Dash Adventure very much.

Haha. I think I just enjoy debating, and we happen to have a very vast difference in opinion. I also have a tendincy to support couples that aren't the most popular. I wouldn't worry too much about my age...just because I'm 24 doesn't mean I'm not still a kid at heart.

And as for the Dash Adventure, depends. Just because you may have character pairings I might not prefer doesn't mean it's a bad story. I'm not all that strongly opposed to SonAmy, in fact the only video game Sonic pairing I'm strongly opposed to is SilvBlaze outside a brother/sister relationship. I just have a different preference that's all, and I'm sorry if I seemed too overbearing about things.

EchidnaPower · February 15, 2010, 03:45:11 AM

Quote from: Mau on February 14, 2010, 03:54:49 PM

Haha. I think I just enjoy debating, and we happen to have a very vast difference in opinion. I also have a tendincy to support couples that aren't the most popular. I wouldn't worry too much about my age...just because I'm 24 doesn't mean I'm not still a kid at heart.
And as for the Dash Adventure, depends. Just because you may have character pairings I might not prefer doesn't mean it's a bad story. I'm not all that strongly opposed to SonAmy, in fact the only video game Sonic pairing I'm strongly opposed to is SilvBlaze outside a brother/sister relationship. I just have a different preference that's all, and I'm sorry if I seemed too overbearing about things.

Then maybe you would like it. Silver and Blaze are-hmm...on second thought, Blaze isn't in it so... Don't hurt me. And you aren't too overbearing, no worries.