That Feminist Gamer Girl Did a Thing (DERAILED)

[Meme Master Flex]

Why is it that black people are usually less qualified than white people? Because they are systemically disadvantaged in society and aren't given the chance to have the same quality of life as white people. But that's an entirely different discussion that I'd rather not get into.

Are you fucking kidding me? Are you seriously this deluded? The only people who are disadvantaged are people who don't have any experience. As a Black Male living in NEW YORK FUCKING CITY, of all places, I can say that I am not disadvantaged in the SLIGHTEST. And as far as I'm concerned I have the same "quality of life" as a white person would here. I was trying to keep out of this discussion, but this just made me so fucking furious that I couldn't contain it anymore. Your pseudo racism is so fucking bullshit it's not even funny. The Principal at my school is black, as are most of my teachers in the college courses that I'm taking 2 YEARS AHEAD OF TIME. So yeah, before you start saying stupid shit, look it the fuck up on somewhere that isn't Fox News, please.

But men don't need to pretty themselves up as much as women. Men are allowed to look average.

Again, are you fucking kidding me? I've been teased and bullied for most of my life for how I look, how I dress, etc. To sit here and say "men are allowed to look average" is again, another fucking insult. Please, before you start throwing fucking claims out there willy nilly, understand what the fuck you're saying and make sure it isn't Walmart-Brand Bullshit.

[Elija2]

No, it's not, it's only a problem cause you make it one. A drug dealer simply being black doesn't mean anything till someone, within the world, brings it to everyone's attention that he's black. If the story and characters don't care that he's black, why should I?

But if black people were depicted this way in the majority of media while other races weren't then it would be pretty obvious racism.

Unfortunately for you, that's where I start and stop with my entertainment. If the game or whatever doesn't draw attention to it, then neither will I.

So you're fine with racism and sexism as long as it's subtle?

Aaaaaand, ya lost me.
It's just a way to start the game, saving someone you love is probably the first thing that comes to mind. Having a masters in story telling is not a requirement to make a game.

It's unfair to women. Female characters are almost always the helpless victim and never the hero. Who likes to be portrayed this way in a medium that's supposed to make you feel good?

You're right, it's not aiming for realism
It's not aiming for sexism either
It's just a fun video game franchise, with a very simple, and minimal story.

Obviously Nintendo weren't aiming to be sexist, but that's how the trope comes across.

No it's not
You said Peach can send items, therefore she can escape.
And I'm saying it's like someone trapped uses a carrier pigeon to send a message, sure the pigeon can go in and out fine, but it doesn't mean she can.
Whatever method Peach is using to send the items, clearly she can't use it to escape. If it were that easy, she would've done so.

In response to me saying that Peach should be able to escape, you said that a carrier pigeon that could carry people would ruin the game. So your argument was that Peach shouldn't be able to escape because it would ruin the game?

I dunno how you came to that, buuuut:
Super Paper Mario, Mario Tennis, Mario Kart, Super Mario RPG, Super Smash Bros., Super Princess Peach, Super Mario 3D World I played and enjoyed, so no, I'm not saying that, at all.

For the record, I'm not talking about the spin-offs.

But don't even get me started on Super Princess Peach.

Sounds like you personally just don't like Peach, which is fine.

No, it sounds like she's just a shitty character in the main Mario titles.

In the case of Sheik, That was cause Ganondorf couldn't find her, cause disguise and magic n' shit.
In the case of Tetra, that was cause Ganondorf couldn't find her, cause disguise and magic n' shit.
You don't fuck with Ganondorf man, cause he's not a man that fucks around.

Besides, wasn't your argument that she had no characterization?

Why didn't she stay in disguise if she knew Ganondorf was looking for her? Because Link needs a princess to save.

She does have characterization, just very little.

Not enough for you, but enough for most Zelda fans.

This is literally all Zelda does in LoZ:



Yeah, great characterization.

That is just incorrect, in every way.

Except in the way that's backed up by research.

Yes, I know that article isn't specific to actors but it shows that unattractive women get far less job opportunities than even unattractive men, even if they have the exact same qualifications. You don't think this would extend to an acting career where the majority of their time is spent in front of a camera?

Men are not allowed to look average, men have to pretty themselves up too when on TV.
It may not be as difficult since most men prefer to keep their hair short, and they don't have bras to worry about, but they have to be presentable on camera just like women do.

Presentable, sure. Attractive, no.

Are you fucking kidding me? Are you seriously this deluded? The only people who are disadvantaged are people who don't have any experience. As a Black Male living in NEW YORK FUCKING CITY, of all places, I can say that I am not disadvantaged in the SLIGHTEST. And as far as I'm concerned I have the same "quality of life" as a white person would here. I was trying to keep out of this discussion, but this just made me so fucking furious that I couldn't contain it anymore. Your pseudo racism is so fucking bullshit it's not even funny. The Principal at my school is black, as are most of my teachers in the college courses that I'm taking 2 YEARS AHEAD OF TIME. So yeah, before you start saying stupid shit, look it the fuck up on somewhere that isn't Fox News, please.

Do you think I'm pulling this out of my ass? Data shows that black people do not get an equal opportunity at education, making it harder for them to gain any experience. Just because your anecdotal evidence shows that you had a fair shake, doesn't mean everyone else does.

Again, are you fucking kidding me? I've been teased and bullied for most of my life for how I look, how I dress, etc. To sit here and say "men are allowed to look average" is again, another fucking insult. Please, before you start throwing fucking claims out there willy nilly, understand what the fuck you're saying and make sure it isn't Walmart-Brand Bullshit.

I was talking in regards to getting a job. If there's one thing bullies are good at, it's giving everyone an equal opportunity to be their victim.

[shadowDOESrock]

I wouldnt want to hire ugly people either
That's bad for image

[Meme Master Flex]

Do you think I'm pulling this out of my ass? Data shows that black people do not get an equal opportunity at education, making it harder for them to gain any experience. Just because your anecdotal evidence shows that you had a fair shake, doesn't mean everyone else does.

You want to know why black kids don't have a fair shot? Because most of them don't even fucking bother to care about their education, or anything else for that matter. If you could see what I see every day, you'd understand why any type of study on this topic is bullshit. It doesn't account for the people actually doing what they're supposed to do. There aren't a lot of black kids in my school that pass. Why? Because they never fucking come, or they always cut class or when they are in class, as rare as that is, they don't do anything but act like a first grader or just sleep. Middle-Class America always wants to fucking call "oh we're so sorry for the blacks" and other stupid bullshit but with the environment half these kids grow up in, no support or balance, it doesn't take much thought to come to a conclusion that these kids don't fucking get it, because they were never taught to get it. Most of them don't apply themselves, most of them don't fucking care, and it's even more insulting to have you sit here and pretend like you give a fuck about race issues. Who the fuck are you? What the fuck have you done to fix any of this? What can you even do to fix it? It pisses me off when people bring up studies like this but don't understand the fucking reason behind it, or don't even care to do their own damn research, because, ya-know, if you were actually in a school that was mostly made up of minorities, you'd understand why, but you're not, so sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up, please, and stop with your social justice bullshit, because it's unneeded and you've shown multiple times that you don't even know first fucking hand what the fuck is going on.

[Elija2]

You want to know why black kids don't have a fair shot? Because most of them don't even fucking bother to care about their education, or anything else for that matter. If you could see what I see every day, you'd understand why any type of study on this topic is bullshit. It doesn't account for the people actually doing what they're supposed to do. There aren't a lot of black kids in my school that pass. Why? Because they never fucking come, or they always cut class or when they are in class, as rare as that is, they don't do anything but act like a first grader or just sleep. Middle-Class America always wants to fucking call "oh we're so sorry for the blacks" and other stupid bullshit but with the environment half these kids grow up in, no support or balance, it doesn't take much thought to come to a conclusion that these kids don't fucking get it, because they were never taught to get it. Most of them don't apply themselves, most of them don't fucking care, and it's even more insulting to have you sit here and pretend like you give a fuck about race issues. Who the fuck are you? What the fuck have you done to fix any of this? What can you even do to fix it? It pisses me off when people bring up studies like this but don't understand the fucking reason behind it, or don't even care to do their own damn research, because, ya-know, if you were actually in a school that was mostly made up of minorities, you'd understand why, but you're not, so sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up, please, and stop with your social justice bullshit, because it's unneeded and you've shown multiple times that you don't even know first fucking hand what the fuck is going on.

Are you saying that black people are just naturally lazier than other races?

And you even said it, these kids grow up in a shitty environment and don't get any support. Many of them can't even afford to go to school, and the ones that can don't take it seriously because society already expects them to be failures.

And what about only 57% of black students having access to math and science courses? How are they to blame for that?

[Randomsonicfan]

Are you saying that black people are just naturally lazier than other races?

And you even said it, these kids grow up in a shitty environment and don't get any support. Many of them can't even afford to go to school, and the ones that can don't take it seriously because society already expects them to be failures.

And what about only 57% of black students having access to math and science courses? How are they to blame for that?

They have free public education, unless you're talking about college. And the ones who do make it into college are the lucky few who actually know their shit. The rest just don't give a shit.

[Meme Master Flex]

Are you saying that black people are just naturally lazier than other races?

And you even said it, these kids grow up in a shitty environment and don't get any support. Many of them can't even afford to go to school, and the ones that can don't take it seriously because society already expects them to be failures.

And what about only 57% of black students having access to math and science courses? How are they to blame for that?

No, it's not about them growing up in a shitty environment, it's about them growing up in said environment and doing nothing about it. I grew up in a fucking homeless shelter, moving from place to place because my mother couldn't support us after my father had died. Society expects me to be a failure, and look where I am now. Also, public school is free, and many associations give out free scholarships just for being black. Black people are usually left behind because they're not motivated and don't feel like doing anything. And if you want to play the race card, why is it that even though I grew up under most of the same circumstances as these people, and I'm able to come out just fine? Why is it that most of the courses I'm taking right now are college level, as compared to a lot of the people in my school who are black and are still taking 9th grade level courses? It's not even about environment, or how they're being put down apparently. It's about how they choose to overcome that, regardless of their race or creed. If they actually cared enough, this wouldn't be an issue, but because it's black people, and our ancestors fucked up and were racist towards anyone who wasn't white, this is still an issue. The government basically fucking HANDS THESE PEOPLE AN EDUCATION, A WAY OUT and they do fuck all with it, because they'd rather stay home and smoke weed and play video games all day, and this doesn't just apply to black people, this applies to anyone, it's not a race issue and it never will be. It's that people want to make it an issue about race because they want a scapegoat, when it was never really about race to begin with, it's about the youth and the decisions they make for their future. It's just that most of these studies revolve around black people being oppressed and disadvantaged, because nobody would read a study or look at an article about white people being oppressed or disadvantaged. What i'm trying to say is that it's not an issue with black people, it's an issue with people who don't care about what they do or what lies ahead for themselves.

[Hakudamashi]

But if black people were depicted this way in the majority of media while other races weren't then it would be pretty obvious racism.

Sure Eli, whatever floats your boat, I just don't care. I don't care that it's mostly a black man, that's not important to me.

So you're fine with racism and sexism as long as it's subtle?

Subtle, not brought up, and doesn't hinder my experience, then yes, I'm fine with it. Guess that makes me an evil man.

It's unfair to women.

No it's not, there are games with women that don't follow these tropes, many of them, there's diversity and it's getting better each day. They can just not play them if it bothers them soo much, they have free will and choice.

Female characters are almost always the helpless victim and never the hero.

Why would the hero be a helpless victim? How does that make sense?
Females have other roles in other games, go play those.
Male characters are almost always the rough and tuff jerk that only knows how to kill, why can't he be a farmer for once?
What's that? Harvest Moon? Animal Crossing?

Who likes to be portrayed this way in a medium that's supposed to make you feel good?

First of all, video games don't have to make you feel good, Spec Ops:The Line and Horror games say hi.
Secondly, if their issue is portrayal, then that's where games like Saints Row and Sunset Overdrive come in, when you can make ur own character.

Obviously Nintendo weren't aiming to be sexist, but that's how the trope comes across.

I have never found, and still don't find this trope "sexist". It's just about saving a person that is in peril, and saving another people is an easy way to motivate people to quest.

In response to me saying that Peach should be able to escape, you said that a carrier pigeon that could carry people would ruin the game. So your argument was that Peach shouldn't be able to escape because it would ruin the game?

She shouldn't be able to escape cause that would mean Bowser runs a shitty prison. And if she could easily escape, then Bowser becomes even less of a threat than he already is. If Peach can easily escape, then what will be the point of Bowser?
If you undermine Bowser's kidnappings, which is like, one of the few things he's good at, then what would any of his future plans? What are his goals? His ambitions?

For the record, I'm not talking about the spin-offs.

Why not? Why don't they count? You're arguing that Peach and Zelda are nothing but props, but they do more in other games and appearances, why don't they count? Why can't they count?

But don't even get me started on Super Princess Peach.

Yes, she rekks shit with her emotions and it's established she uses a vibrator. I found it awesomely hilarious.

No, it sounds like she's just a shitty character in the main Mario titles.

She does have characterization, just very little.

Funny
This whole thing started cause I disagreed with the notion that Peach and Zelda have no character, and here you are, admitting they have character.

Why didn't she stay in disguise if she knew Ganondorf was looking for her? Because Link needs a princess to save.

Because both Link and Zelda are needed to seal Ganondorf, she had to come out of disguise so the Triforce of wisdom can reveal itself so that the sealing can happen. And I already said that Ganondorf can track her down once her triforce piece is revealed.
But I'm sure you're gonna come back with "Why can't she seal him while in disguise? Because Link needs a princess to save"
Y'know what? If that's all you want to see it as, and what you want to boil it down to, then fine, I hope you're happy with that.

This is literally all Zelda does in LoZ:

That, and the manga, and the Hyrule historian thingie. Zelda fans got enough characterization, and I'd think they're the ones that matter here.

Except in the way that's backed up by research.

Yes, I know that article isn't specific to actors but it shows that unattractive women get far less job opportunities than even unattractive men, even if they have the exact same qualifications. You don't think this would extend to an acting career where the majority of their time is spent in front of a camera?

Having volunteered at different businesses, there are soo many factors to consider here I'm not even gonna bother tackling this.
I'll just leave with I'm not convinced.

Presentable, sure. Attractive, no.

Please tell me you're not being serious right now.

Do you think I'm pulling this out of my ass? Data shows that black people do not get an equal opportunity at education, making it harder for them to gain any experience. Just because your anecdotal evidence shows that you had a fair shake, doesn't mean everyone else does.

Nope, I'm done, I'm not touching this.

[Chimmy Chonga]

It's unfair to women. Female characters are almost always the helpless victim and never the hero. Who likes to be portrayed this way in a medium that's supposed to make you feel good?

[jkid101094]

Eli please stop arguing while the people here still have a shred of respect for you. I know you want to "win" the argument here but we're hitting the point where it's impossible to take you seriously.

Also who the fuck changed the topic title? The OP makes me look like a stupid douche. BC

[shadowDOESrock]

[Elija2]

No, it's not about them growing up in a shitty environment, it's about them growing up in said environment and doing nothing about it. I grew up in a fucking homeless shelter, moving from place to place because my mother couldn't support us after my father had died. Society expects me to be a failure, and look where I am now. Also, public school is free, and many associations give out free scholarships just for being black. Black people are usually left behind because they're not motivated and don't feel like doing anything. And if you want to play the race card, why is it that even though I grew up under most of the same circumstances as these people, and I'm able to come out just fine? Why is it that most of the courses I'm taking right now are college level, as compared to a lot of the people in my school who are black and are still taking 9th grade level courses? It's not even about environment, or how they're being put down apparently. It's about how they choose to overcome that, regardless of their race or creed. If they actually cared enough, this wouldn't be an issue, but because it's black people, and our ancestors fucked up and were racist towards anyone who wasn't white, this is still an issue. The government basically fucking HANDS THESE PEOPLE AN EDUCATION, A WAY OUT and they do fuck all with it, because they'd rather stay home and smoke weed and play video games all day, and this doesn't just apply to black people, this applies to anyone, it's not a race issue and it never will be. It's that people want to make it an issue about race because they want a scapegoat, when it was never really about race to begin with, it's about the youth and the decisions they make for their future. It's just that most of these studies revolve around black people being oppressed and disadvantaged, because nobody would read a study or look at an article about white people being oppressed or disadvantaged. What i'm trying to say is that it's not an issue with black people, it's an issue with people who don't care about what they do or what lies ahead for themselves.

What are they supposed to do about it? You're acting like it's easy to get out of poverty. Yeah, you came out of it, but most people don't.

You say that it's not a race issue but it's something that predominantly happens to black people. Why do you think that is?

Why are black students more likely to have shittier teachers? Why are black students less likely to have access to certain courses like math and science? Why are black kids most likely to get suspended in preschool? None of these are the fault of the kids.

Sure Eli, whatever floats your boat, I just don't care. I don't care that it's mostly a black man, that's not important to me.

Well many people do care. Why do you think they're complaining about it?

Subtle, not brought up, and doesn't hinder my experience, then yes, I'm fine with it. Guess that makes me an evil man.

It makes you a person who tolerates racism and sexism even though you know that it exists.

No it's not, there are games with women that don't follow these tropes, many of them, there's diversity and it's getting better each day. They can just not play them if it bothers them soo much, they have free will and choice.

No there aren't. So many of the biggest games use these tropes and for many of them there is no female-friendly substitution.

Telling people that they can just not play the games is not a defence, you're basically just dismissing their complaints.

Why would the hero be a helpless victim? How does that make sense?
Females have other roles in other games, go play those.
Male characters are almost always the rough and tuff jerk that only knows how to kill, why can't he be a farmer for once?
What's that? Harvest Moon? Animal Crossing?

Did I say that the hero should be the helpless victim?

Again, you're being dismissive.

First of all, video games don't have to make you feel good, Spec Ops:The Line and Horror games say hi.
Secondly, if their issue is portrayal, then that's where games like Saints Row and Sunset Overdrive come in, when you can make ur own character.

Games like Mario are meant to make you feel good.

And so basically a woman's only hope at being portrayed well in a videogame is if she creates her own character. Because expecting developers not to be sexist is asking for too much.

I have never found, and still don't find this trope "sexist". It's just about saving a person that is in peril, and saving another people is an easy way to motivate people to quest.

Yes, it is easy. It's easy because it's a woman and women are always portrayed as being weak and helpless.

She shouldn't be able to escape cause that would mean Bowser runs a shitty prison. And if she could easily escape, then Bowser becomes even less of a threat than he already is. If Peach can easily escape, then what will be the point of Bowser?
If you undermine Bowser's kidnappings, which is like, one of the few things he's good at, then what would any of his future plans? What are his goals? His ambitions?

So you admit that Bowser is already a little threat but that having Peach escape would just be too much. I mean, Bowser is a buffoon but it would take a real moron to have a woman escape from his clutches!

Bowser's goals are to rule the world. He can do that without kidnapping Peach in every game.

Why not? Why don't they count? You're arguing that Peach and Zelda are nothing but props, but they do more in other games and appearances, why don't they count? Why can't they count?

They do count, that's just not what we're talking about. Everyone is usually treated equal in the spinoffs, but why must the main games still treat Peach as a damsel?

Funny
This whole thing started cause I disagreed with the notion that Peach and Zelda have no character, and here you are, admitting they have character.

Peach does have no character, at least in the main games. Zelda is characterized a bit more but she's still relegated to being the damsel in distress even though it's already established that she can be a much stronger character.

Because both Link and Zelda are needed to seal Ganondorf, she had to come out of disguise so the Triforce of wisdom can reveal itself so that the sealing can happen. And I already said that Ganondorf can track her down once her triforce piece is revealed.
But I'm sure you're gonna come back with "Why can't she seal him while in disguise? Because Link needs a princess to save"
Y'know what? If that's all you want to see it as, and what you want to boil it down to, then fine, I hope you're happy with that.

Well, why did she need to be captured? Link already had a motivation to go after Ganondorf. She gets kidnapped right after he collects all of the medallions and the only thing left to do in the game after that is go to Ganon's castle which Link would have done anyway. Zelda being kidnapped is completely unnecessary plot-wise.

That, and the manga, and the Hyrule historian thingie. Zelda fans got enough characterization, and I'd think they're the ones that matter here.

Not really because none of that is portrayed in the game.

Please tell me you're not being serious right now.

I'm not? Look at almost any TV show or movie. Most of the time the male characters look average but the female characters all look beautiful.

Eli please stop arguing while the people here still have a shred of respect for you. I know you want to "win" the argument here but we're hitting the point where it's impossible to take you seriously.

I think that once you started calling me an SJW as a pejorative without even knowing what it means, I already lost all of your respect.

And congratulations guys, I say that most female characters are the helpless victim and you post a couple of examples where they aren't. You sure disproved me.

[Chimmy Chonga]

[Meme Master Flex]

What are they supposed to do about it? You're acting like it's easy to get out of poverty. Yeah, you came out of it, but most people don't.

Most people don't because it's easy to let the government give you free money and it's also easy to collect food stamps.

You say that it's not a race issue but it's something that predominantly happens to black people. Why do you think that is?

No, it doesn't predominately happen to black people, it happens to everyone, regardless of race. It's just that people only notice the minorities such as blacks because of the history we have with them and they still want to make race an issue.

Why are black students more likely to have shittier teachers?

Are you fucking stupid?

Why are black students less likely to have access to certain courses like math and science?

Those courses are mandatory to graduate in the United States. So I don't know what the fuck you're on about.

Why are black kids most likely to get suspended in preschool? None of these are the fault of the kids.

Okay, let's take an example. This woman who wrote the article, Tunette Powell, upon googling her name, you can see what state and town she lives in on the Facebook link.



Omaha, Nebraska. One of the worst places in America to be black. If this woman planned herself a little better, then maybe she wouldn't have PLANTED HERSELF IN ONE OF THE MOST RACIST PLACES IN THE COUNTRY.

I've been to other states with my friends on trips, and one of my Hispanic friends was called Mexican when we went to Nebraska for a college trip. She was from Venezuela. Another one of my Hispanic friends who is from the Dominican Republic was talking to my other friend in Spanish at a gas station while our bus was being filled up, and someone called them dirty beaners. I personally wasn't called anything racist during our time there so I can't speak in that respect, but I've heard complaints from other people that I know that there were less than pleasurable things said to them. Anywhere where there's a uneducated mass of people, you can count there's going to be a few racists thrown into the mix, so to say that it's just black people is so fucking close-minded.

[Hakudamashi]

Well many people do care. Why do you think they're complaining about it?

Good for them, I hope they're happy.

No there aren't. So many of the biggest games use these tropes and for many of them there is no female-friendly substitution.

Female friendly
huh
Didn't know women needed a game just for them to have fun...

Telling people that they can just not play the games is not a defence, you're basically just dismissing their complaints.

Fine, then I'm a dismissive ass, feel free to hate me, I'll keep playing the games I like thank you.

Did I say that the hero should be the helpless victim?

It's unfair to women. Female characters are almost always the helpless victim and never the hero.

Reading it again, you instead implied that there are no female heroes, which is factually incorrect.

Games like Mario are meant to make you feel good.

You were being general.

And so basically a woman's only hope at being portrayed well in a videogame is if she creates her own character. Because expecting developers not to be sexist is asking for too much.

WELL
Considering the rate of sales of games with female protags versus games with male protags, yes, it is quite a lot to ask to "just make a female protag".

Yes, it is easy. It's easy because it's a woman and women are always portrayed as being weak and helpless.

It's easy because saving another human being is a quick concept to get across. If you wanna be a cynic about it, then be my guest.

So you admit that Bowser is already a little threat

Less
LESS
LESS!
I said LESS!

I mean, Bowser is a buffoon but it would take a real moron to have a woman escape from his clutches!

Bowser is not a bafoon, don't call him a bafoon, arrogance is not synonymous with being an idiot, that line of thinking ruined Knuckles, don't make it ruin someone else.

Bowser's goals are to rule the world. He can do that without kidnapping Peach in every game.

Bowser's goal is not to rule the world, it never was, only Mario Galaxy 1 did that. He thinks he's the best, he thinks he deserves the best. He wants Peach cause she's the prettiest, he wants to beat Mario to prove he's the best. He's not a monster, he's just a big dumb jerk, a bully, a dick with a big ego.

.
They do count, that's just not what we're talking about.

Yes it is what we're talking about, I disagreed with Anita cause she said Peach and Zelda have no character, but they do, and their characterizations are furthered in the spin-offs, they are relevant to the point I want to get across.

Everyone is usually treated equal in the spinoffs, but why must the main games still treat Peach as a damsel?

Why does Bowser always gotta be a dick? And why does Mario never say "fuck it" and don't adventure?

Peach does have no character, at least in the main games.

You can't call shitty what isn't there.

Zelda is characterized a bit more but she's still relegated to being the damsel in distress even though it's already established that she can be a much stronger character.

Being captured by the better person makes her less of a person.
That's mean, you're mean.

Well, why did she need to be captured? Link already had a motivation to go after Ganondorf. She gets kidnapped right after he collects all of the medallions and the only thing left to do in the game after that is go to Ganon's castle which Link would have done anyway. Zelda being kidnapped is completely unnecessary plot-wise.

Beause in Ocarina of Time, Zelda has a spell to completely immobilize him, why WOULDN'T he get rid of her? He can at least have a chance beating Link in a sword fight, since he has magic.
In Wind Waker, Zelda has the light arrows, which fucking rek him, and he knows it, again, why WOULDN'T he get rid of her? And again, he can beat Link in a sword fight
He weighed his options, and decided to petrify Zelda cause she's the bigger threat to him, and doesn't think much of Link.

Not really because none of that is portrayed in the game.

Then that's your problem.

I'm not? Look at almost any TV show or movie. Most of the time the male characters look average but the female characters all look beautiful.

And congratulations guys, I say that most female characters are the helpless victim and you post a couple of examples where they aren't. You sure disproved me.

Couple=two
Are you gonna be that guy? Are you either never gonna accept that there are many games with good female protags? Or will you never be satisfied until we post every game with a female protag ever made?