That Feminist Gamer Girl Did a Thing (DERAILED)

[Elija2]

Well we're at an impasse. I don't find being saved demeaning,

I've explained it to you a dozen times that it's more than about just being saved. Are you deliberately being obtuse?

I don't care that they exist, no.

What a great person you are.

If stripping away everything about a character and seeing them as nothing more than puppets of their writers is how you enjoy your video games, then have fun with that.
That's now how I think.

But that's exactly what they are, whether you see them as that or not. Obviously I don't play a game and casually think about this stuff, but if we're analyzing games then that's how I'm going to analyze the characters; as tools for storytelling.

Being gentle, soft-spoken, graceful, ditzy, liking gardens and a bit of a ditz are not things inherent with being a Princess, that's who Peach is, and she's also good at baking, that's her skill. She has traits and characterisation to define her as Princess Peach Toadstool, so say she has no character is just incorrect, whether or not she has enough character for you is a different issue.

How did you learn all these things about Peach, and what was the context of them being presented to you?

Did you learn that she was gentle when she refused to struggle while being kidnapped? Did you learn that she was soft-spoken when she thanked Mario for saving her? Did you learn that she was graceful when she gently floated down from her cage? Did you learn that she's good at baking because she invited Mario over for cake (so that he could witness her kidnapping)?

How'd you figure that?

Because toads are actually playable, and when they're not they're seen as aiding in her search.

By your standards
But by my standards, I think it's demeaning that this male goes to the lengths of violence to get what he wants. And what does he want? Women and power
Everything always boils down to women and power. Why is a man's motivation always women, or power, sometimes both? Men can be more complex than that, they have other interests than women and power.
And why is he angry? Why are men always so angry? We don't even get context why he's so angry, he just is.
It's demeaning that the man is always the aggro jerk that makes like difficult for everyone, always for women and power, because men totally have no other motivations and don't know how to think rationally.

But hey, that's just my opinion, my take on what I find demeaning.

Bowser is the bad guy, he's supposed to be mean. You're not supposed to think that his attitude is right.

And are you seriously suggesting that women getting kidnapped by men all the time is sexist against men?

I dunno, do I? What was her role in helping me find all these games? Did she help develop these games? Is she a writing consultant?

She's raising awareness and causing developers to rethink their writing. That's her role.

[Chimmy Chonga]

Smells like fedora in this thread.

[Elija2]

Smells like fedora in this thread.

Why are you posting in this thread if you're contributing nothing to it but stupid insults? Is it because you're unable to actually attack my points so you have to resort to attacking my character?

And for the record, fedoras are an MRA stereotype, not a feminist stereotype. Even your insults don't make sense.

[Darkyellowz]

Why are you posting in this thread if you're contributing nothing to it but stupid insults? Is it because you're unable to actually attack my points so you have to resort to attacking my character?

And for the record, fedoras are an MRA stereotype, not a feminist stereotype. Even your insults don't make sense.

Dude, holy fucking shit. No need to get THAT fucking angry. I went through the thread, and everyone's opinions are shit. You're always so fucking biased, and I hate that. So if you think someone can't attack your "points," then think again.

Also, stop being a shit cunt, and talking everything so hard. Only shits are supposed to make you angry, not the internet.

[Chimmy Chonga]

Why are you posting in this thread if you're contributing nothing to it but stupid insults? Is it because you're unable to actually attack my points so you have to resort to attacking my character?

And for the record, fedoras are an MRA stereotype, not a feminist stereotype. Even your insults don't make sense.

Holy hell calm down, lmao. I haven't been taking this thread seriously enough to actually attack your "points" so I was just being silly to see how long it'd take for you to not ignore me. There's really nothing to say that nobody else has said already, you're just a brick wall that blocks all logic and proof and just continues saying "butbut muh feminisms". What you believe is "feminism" and "social justice" is so extremely skewed there's no point in arguing, you'll just dance around what we say and continue endlessly to try and "win" this argument, which I hate to say, is draining any shred of respect people on this site have for you.

And for the record, fedoras are typically symbols for socially awkward people who believe they're superior to other people... or socially awkward men that try very hard to get into a lady's pants. Ever hear the phrase "In this moment, I am euphoric" or "m'lady"?

[Elija2]

Dude, holy fucking shit. No need to get THAT fucking angry. I went through the thread, and everyone's opinions are shit. You're always so fucking biased, and I hate that. So if you think someone can't attack your "points," then think again.

Also, stop being a shit cunt, and talking everything so hard. Only shits are supposed to make you angry, not the internet.

How am I biased? I mean, obviously I'm going to defend my point if I think it's right. How is that a bad thing?

Holy hell calm down, lmao. I haven't been taking this thread seriously enough to actually attack your "points" so I was just being silly to see how long it'd take for you to not ignore me. There's really nothing to say that nobody else has said already, you're just a brick wall that blocks all logic and proof and just continues saying "butbut muh feminisms". What you believe is "feminism" and "social justice" is so extremely skewed there's no point in arguing, you'll just dance around what we say and continue endlessly to try and "win" this argument, which I hate to say, is draining any shred of respect people on this site have for you.

And for the record, fedoras are typically symbols for socially awkward people who believe they're superior to other people... or socially awkward men that try very hard to get into a lady's pants. Ever hear the phrase "In this moment, I am euphoric" or "m'lady"?

I'm not dancing around any arguments. I'm sorry if it seems that way to you because you just can't fathom how a common trope used in videogames could be sexist. But with people like you and Haku who think that sexism in games isn't even a problem, I don't know why I'm bothering to explain it.

[Chimmy Chonga]

I'm not dancing around any arguments. I'm sorry if it seems that way to you because you just can't fathom how a common trope used in videogames could be sexist. But with people like you and Haku who think that sexism in games isn't even a problem, I don't know why I'm bothering to explain it.

Maybe no one else seeing it as sexist means it isn't a problem? It's not like playing Mario is going to make people shout out "YAY WOMEN ARE OBJECTS!" As someone who's been a huge video game player a majority of his life, including playing the games you consider sexist or racist, I don't think I've turned out "misogynistic". Essentially, people like you are MAKING this a problem.

[shadowDOESrock]

Says the person who doesn't consider the word "jap" to be offensive because nobody he knows minds it, and says the person who thinks that the use of sexist tropes against women in videogames doesn't affect our perception of women in real life. Or at least that's what you said in the last thread we had about sexism, which interestingly doesn't seem to exist anymore. I wonder why.

That's exactly why I think there's a certain lack of understanding about the world- about people, and about the rest of the world on your side.

And that topic was fused with this one, as the thematics were similar. But thank you.

[Meme Master Flex]

That's anecdotal. You can't say that it's true for the majority of black people, especially since many of them really are poor.

You have your evidence from fucking articles you've Googled. When you've lived in a homeless shelter, when you've actually lived in the projects, when you've lived in a goddamn ghetto, then you can fucking speak. I've talked to many of these people before, I know who they are and how they think. Again, what the fuck have you done?

No you don't, you're just making shit up with no evidence.

My evidence is what I've seen with my own eyes, if I have to actually go out and interview these people for me to make a fucking point, I will. I've been told to my fucking face why these people do the things they do. Because you can find articles on google doesn't make my argument invalid. I've had to fucking interview these people for my journalism class, I know why because I've sat there and I've talked to them, not found stupid fucking articles made by people who don't understand what they're talking about.

Well I guess your anecdotal evidence is more reliable that actual research.

Although these classes are pretty much filled with other black kids besides me, because my evidence is anecdotal, and not from my own personal experiences from actually being there, and not in some fucking basement thinking I know a thing about the world.

Exactly. If she had the ability to move away, she likely would have. And yet many black people still live in these cities.

Okay, yeah no, I'm fucking done. You've done nothing but dismiss my arguments and just put up your own form of bullshit to defend yourself. You really can't fucking talk about this situation until you've experienced it yourself, and you've been there to talk to these people, to actually have empathy for how they feel and why they do what they do. If you want to keep pulling up articles from a google search to back up your fallacious and flawed claims, feel free to do so, because obviously it makes you feel better about yourself. Unlike you, I've actually lived in these places, I've been through what I've shown, and I can fucking say that half the points you've brought up are absolute garbage and you really need to reevaluate why just about everything you said is bullshit. When you've lived through shitty circumstances, when you've seen your friend's parents go to jail for committing fraud, because she wanted to live a comfortable lifestyle, then you can fucking talk like you know something. When your mom's friend constantly asks you to take your mother's fucking EBT card so she can get something to eat, and you're only 8, then you can fucking talk. When you have to go day by fucking day wondering where your friend went only to find out that they dropped out to fucking sell weed, then you can fucking speak. You haven't been through tough shit, and you want to talk like you can fucking speak? lmfao get the fuck out of my face i'm done with this conversation

[Hakudamashi]

I've explained it to you a dozen times that it's more than about just being saved. Are you deliberately being obtuse?

rightrightright, cause it's a woman.

What a great person you are.

I never said, or implied that I'm a great person, but thank you.

Did you learn that she was gentle when she refused to struggle while being kidnapped? Did you learn that she was soft-spoken when she thanked Mario for saving her? Did you learn that she was graceful when she gently floated down from her cage? Did you learn that she's good at baking because she invited Mario over for cake (so that he could witness her kidnapping)?

I learned that she's gentle from how she addresses and interacts with those around her, I mean, she sure as hell ain't rough, or cruel, or rowdy.
I learned she's soft spoken, cause she's literally soft-spoken whenever she speaks, even her shouts have low volume.
I learned she's graceful cause, just look at how she walks, she takes small steps, even when running(She's always one of the slower characters in almost every game she's playable, this is clearly a conscious decision), and she's every so minimalistic with how she moves her hands, she doesn't just, fling them about, even when she's surprised or scared (which again, carriers over into the spin-offs, her victory animations are never as flamboyant or wild as everyone else, this again has to be a conscious decision)
I learned that she's into baking in Mario 64 when she invited Mario over to try some. I learned she's good at baking in Galaxy 2 when Bowser straight up admitted he went to this length of getting huge n' shit just to eat a giant fucking cake made by her.

Because toads are actually playable, and when they're not they're seen as aiding in her search.

I don't think not being playable is a depiction of worth, and in most games they're in a panic begging Mario to do something, Captain Toad on the other hand is the one that does shit.

Bowser is the bad guy, he's supposed to be mean. You're not supposed to think that his attitude is right.

So when it comes to villains, you can look past the fact that they're almost always men?

And are you seriously suggesting that women getting kidnapped by men all the time is sexist against men?

Change the wording to
"And are you seriously suggesting that men kidnapping women all the time is sexist against men?
Then yes, I did indeed just suggest that.

She's raising awareness and causing developers to rethink their writing. That's her role.

You're gonna have to do more convincing than that
I don't believe characters like Milla, Lucina, Princess Hilda, and Edea wouldn't exist without her "services"

But with people like you and Haku who think that sexism in games isn't even a problem,

No
I never disagreed that sexism in a game is a problem.
I disagree on what you consider sexist.

[Meme Master Flex]

This pretty much puts together how I feel about this.

[dreamcasthime]

This pretty much puts together how I feel about this.

Morgan is my true lord and savior

[Hakudamashi]

Well ofcourse
He's totally God.

[Elija2]

Alright, I'm going to concede some of my points. Are Zelda and Peach damsels in distress? Yes. Does that make them bad characters? No (although it certainly doesn't help). Are only women depicted as damsels in distress? No. However, the problem is that women are overwhelmingly depicted this way, much more than men are. These negative tropes are sexist because they are used almost exclusively with female characters. And when a group of people (in this case, women) are disproportionately depicted in a certain way, it means that this is how a majority of people see them as.

Maybe no one else seeing it as sexist means it isn't a problem? It's not like playing Mario is going to make people shout out "YAY WOMEN ARE OBJECTS!" As someone who's been a huge video game player a majority of his life, including playing the games you consider sexist or racist, I don't think I've turned out "misogynistic". Essentially, people like you are MAKING this a problem.

But a bunch of people do see it as sexist, that's why they're pointing it out.

And you guys are defending sexist tropes by saying "So what? It happens all the time!" so clearly it's affecting how you think female characters should be depicted.

You have your evidence from fucking articles you've Googled. When you've lived in a homeless shelter, when you've actually lived in the projects, when you've lived in a goddamn ghetto, then you can fucking speak. I've talked to many of these people before, I know who they are and how they think. Again, what the fuck have you done?

My evidence is what I've seen with my own eyes, if I have to actually go out and interview these people for me to make a fucking point, I will. I've been told to my fucking face why these people do the things they do. Because you can find articles on google doesn't make my argument invalid. I've had to fucking interview these people for my journalism class, I know why because I've sat there and I've talked to them, not found stupid fucking articles made by people who don't understand what they're talking about.

Yes, actual research. That beats your personal experiences, sorry.

Although these classes are pretty much filled with other black kids besides me, because my evidence is anecdotal, and not from my own personal experiences from actually being there, and not in some fucking basement thinking I know a thing about the world.

So, what, you think these statistics are false? You're literally brushing off actual research because "That's not what I've seen!"

Okay, yeah no, I'm fucking done. You've done nothing but dismiss my arguments and just put up your own form of bullshit to defend yourself. You really can't fucking talk about this situation until you've experienced it yourself, and you've been there to talk to these people, to actually have empathy for how they feel and why they do what they do. If you want to keep pulling up articles from a google search to back up your fallacious and flawed claims, feel free to do so, because obviously it makes you feel better about yourself. Unlike you, I've actually lived in these places, I've been through what I've shown, and I can fucking say that half the points you've brought up are absolute garbage and you really need to reevaluate why just about everything you said is bullshit. When you've lived through shitty circumstances, when you've seen your friend's parents go to jail for committing fraud, because she wanted to live a comfortable lifestyle, then you can fucking talk like you know something. When your mom's friend constantly asks you to take your mother's fucking EBT card so she can get something to eat, and you're only 8, then you can fucking talk. When you have to go day by fucking day wondering where your friend went only to find out that they dropped out to fucking sell weed, then you can fucking speak. You haven't been through tough shit, and you want to talk like you can fucking speak? lmfao get the fuck out of my face i'm done with this conversation

I'm not dismissing your arguments, you're dismissing mine just because they don't apply to your life. You're saying that actual research performed by experts is wrong just because you think it is.

This pretty much puts together how I feel about this.

Yeah, black people are poor because they don't work hard enough. I guess that means that black people are lazier than white people, right? He even says that race doesn't play a part in income distribution which is objectively false.

[jkid101094]

Hey Eli, you wanna join us for Smash bros?