Worst Characters In Sonic History

[Hakudamashi]

Remember that time Sonic said he's totally ok with murder?

[jkid101094]

No, SA1 was much more light-hearted than SA2. That's like saying that Super Mario Galaxy has a dark story because Bowser tried to take over the universe.

Remember the time Sonic broke into the president's limo to steal a floppy disc?
Remember the time Amy Rose somehow infiltrated a prison and was more intent on getting a date then letting her friend go?
Remember when Amy and Tails were talking about going into Space and Knuckles just randomly popped out of the sewers?

Even if the overall story had a slightly darker tone it was just as balanced with light-hearted comedy as the first game. Hell, SA1 is even darker if you consider Tikal's story and how it led to the genocide of the Echidna race.

I don't believe that, but even if it was true the fact that Sonic Team actually went with it is just as damning. And again, them trying too hard to make their games edgy is the thing I'm complaining about!

Does it really matter? It was a fan idea that Sonic Team found interesting enough to turn into a reality. The game was dark and edgy to appeal to an older demographic, not because Shadow was the main character.

No, I mentioned Sonic 06 (aka the reboot) in my post. Shadow had a major role in that game, too. Sonic Boom doesn't count because it was a cheap tie-in for the cartoon, and Lost World is still a major improvement over Shadow and 06.

Sonic '06 was just as much a reboot as New Super Mario Bros. was a reboot of the classic Mario games. In order to reboot something you need to start it over again from the beginning and that's not what '06 did. Also I've said this before but I'm 99% sure that the Sonic Boom video games came before the cartoon considering the entire reason it exists was to appeal to western gamers. You also argue that Lost World is better than Shadow the Hedgehog and I honestly disagree. I had fun with Shadow and Lost World felt like a fucking chore to me.

I would not call Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow, or Sonic 06 "good games". SA2 and Heroes are average at best.

I would say SA2 and Heroes are pretty good games with Shadow being average and Sonic '06 being junk. Meanwhile I'd say Unleashed was average at best, Colors and Generations were great and Lost World and Sonic Boom were only slightly above '06. Even still I don't see how Shadow's involvement in any of those games would have made them better or worse.

And how can you say that he had little effect on the series when the stories of SA2 and Shadow revolve around him?

One game revolved around him and then the series forced him to forget everything which pretty much removed his backstory from the entire franchise. Even Shadow the Hedgehog focused on him learning about the events of SA2 and getting over his losses and moving on with his life. I'm confident in saying that Shadow's backstory had NO relevance to any Sonic game besides those two.

And dark tones in Sonic games aren't inherently bad, but the stupid convoluted story that Shadow spawned with the whole ultimate life form and GUN and Maria shit is just embarrassing.

The only thing that carried over from SA2 into other games was G.U.N. and they're just a faction separate from Eggman just so trashing the same enemies over again doesn't become an eyesore. Not only that but they give Rogue and Shadow reasons to stick around without directly opposing the heroes.

As for the ultimate life form being a bad plot element what about the Werehog or Light and Dark Gaia and the fact that the former can only fight with a fucking megazord formed out of temples? Shadow's backstory is not the only weirdly out of place thing in the series.

[Hakudamashi]

Remember that one time Sonic gave life advice to a witch after driving a sword through her gut?

[Elija2]

Remember the time Sonic broke into the president's limo to steal a floppy disc?
Remember the time Amy Rose somehow infiltrated a prison and was more intent on getting a date then letting her friend go?
Remember when Amy and Tails were talking about going into Space and Knuckles just randomly popped out of the sewers?

Even if the overall story had a slightly darker tone it was just as balanced with light-hearted comedy as the first game. Hell, SA1 is even darker if you consider Tikal's story and how it led to the genocide of the Echidna race.

Except none of that stuff (apart from maybe Amy wanting a date) was presented as jokes. The game took itself seriously the whole way through.

Does it really matter? It was a fan idea that Sonic Team found interesting enough to turn into a reality. The game was dark and edgy to appeal to an older demographic, not because Shadow was the main character.

Of course it matters! They wanted to make a Sonic game with guns but couldn't have a good guy like Sonic doing the shooting. If Shadow didn't exist, they likely wouldn't have ever made the game.

Sonic '06 was just as much a reboot as New Super Mario Bros. was a reboot of the classic Mario games. In order to reboot something you need to start it over again from the beginning and that's not what '06 did. Also I've said this before but I'm 99% sure that the Sonic Boom video games came before the cartoon considering the entire reason it exists was to appeal to western gamers. You also argue that Lost World is better than Shadow the Hedgehog and I honestly disagree. I had fun with Shadow and Lost World felt like a fucking chore to me.

Sonic 06 was meant to be a story reboot. That's why Shadow works for GUN in 06 despite hating them in SA2 and Shadow. And of course the Sonic Boom cartoon came before the games, otherwise they wouldn't have announced the cartoon months before the thing it's based on. And the general consensus is that Lost World is much better than Shadow so you're the odd one there.

I would say SA2 and Heroes are pretty good games with Shadow being average and Sonic '06 being junk. Meanwhile I'd say Unleashed was average at best, Colors and Generations were great and Lost World and Sonic Boom were only slightly above '06. Even still I don't see how Shadow's involvement in any of those games would have made them better or worse.

If Shadow didn't exist, SA2 might have had a tolerable story. If Shadow didn't exist, Heroes likely wouldn't have had 4 nearly identical campaigns since they'd have one less person to fill in as a speed character. If Shadow didn't exist, they wouldn't have made a dark Sonic game with guns and vehicles. If Shadow didn't exist, there likely wouldn't have been multiple campaigns in Sonic 06. Some of these might be stretches but I certainly can't think of a single game that Shadow improved.

One game revolved around him and then the series forced him to forget everything which pretty much removed his backstory from the entire franchise. Even Shadow the Hedgehog focused on him learning about the events of SA2 and getting over his losses and moving on with his life. I'm confident in saying that Shadow's backstory had NO relevance to any Sonic game besides those two.

His story has little relevance outside of those two games but later games like Sonic 06 kept the dark and story-centric tone that those games established.

The only thing that carried over from SA2 into other games was G.U.N. and they're just a faction separate from Eggman just so trashing the same enemies over again doesn't become an eyesore. Not only that but they give Rogue and Shadow reasons to stick around without directly opposing the heroes.

As for the ultimate life form being a bad plot element what about the Werehog or Light and Dark Gaia and the fact that the former can only fight with a fucking megazord formed out of temples? Shadow's backstory is not the only weirdly out of place thing in the series.

GUN returned in Shadow and 06, arguably the two worst 3D Sonic games ever. Maria also returned and played a big part in Shadow.

The werehog was dumb but it was thankfully isolated to only a single game. Shadow's stupidness bogged down multiple games.

[Hakudamashi]

I think Eli loves Shadow you guys.

[jkid101094]

Except none of that stuff (apart from maybe Amy wanting a date) was presented as jokes. The game took itself seriously the whole way through.

I find that pretty hard to believe.

Of course it matters! They wanted to make a Sonic game with guns but couldn't have a good guy like Sonic doing the shooting. If Shadow didn't exist, they likely wouldn't have ever made the game.

Or they could have just used a different character or, hell, created a new one with even LESS redeeming qualities. That game isn't Shadow's fault, it's Sonic Team's for approving the idea in the first place.

Sonic 06 was meant to be a story reboot. That's why Shadow works for GUN in 06 despite hating them in SA2 and Shadow.

I don't recall him ever hating G.U.N, just trashing them for getting in his way (the same thing everyone else did in SA2). He blamed humans in general for Maria's death, not the military. In Shadow he even had a chance to outright KILL the commander of the entire organization and considering he splits Eggman's head open in one of the endings Shadow being a murderer was not below them. Him working for G.U.N. can easily be summed up in Shadow joining Rogue who at that point was the closest friend he had next to Omega. It's not like shit hasn't happened in between Sonic games before. The only thing that even hints at this being a reboot of the series aside from the name is Blaze's backstory and even that can be explained as lazy writing by the dev team just to reinclude another popular character.

And of course the Sonic Boom cartoon came before the games, otherwise they wouldn't have announced the cartoon months before the thing it's based on.

Unfortunately in my research I can't find anything confirming or denying my claim so until we see proof either way the matter is moot.

If Shadow didn't exist, SA2 might have had a tolerable story. If Shadow didn't exist, Heroes likely wouldn't have had 4 nearly identical campaigns since they'd have one less person to fill in as a speed character. If Shadow didn't exist, they wouldn't have made a dark Sonic game with guns and vehicles. If Shadow didn't exist, there likely wouldn't have been multiple campaigns in Sonic 06. Some of these might be stretches but I certainly can't think of a single game that Shadow improved.

You could literally replace almost every mention of the word Shadow with Sonic Team in this baseless blurb of text and have a more coherent argument.

Then we get back to what I said near the beginning of this argument. What Shadow offers to the series is being the "anti-Sonic". In terms of being a rival Knuckles and Sonic aren't very evenly matched, meanwhile Metal Sonic is generally mute meaning their chemistry in dialogue is pretty much non-existent. Shadow is the best of both worlds being that he is on equal terms with Sonic in power but also plays along with his cocky attitude to make some great dialogue. There's a point to him being in the series other being dark and edgy and that's more than you can say about someone like Elise who only exists to be a damsel in distress.

His story has little relevance outside of those two games but later games like Sonic 06 kept the dark and story-centric tone that those games established.

Said dark tone which was not only popular with fans of the series but existed long before Adventure 2 in the series. You do realize Shadow didn't write these stories, right? Someone sat down at their computer and asked themselves, "What do the fans and higher ups want?". That's where these stories came from. You blaming Shadow is just so you can pin the hate on something you personally dislike.

GUN returned in Shadow and 06, arguably the two worst 3D Sonic games ever. Maria also returned and played a big part in Shadow.

Thank you for the trivia that we're all aware of already.

The werehog was dumb but it was thankfully isolated to only a single game. Shadow's stupidness bogged down multiple games.

...and those games were? Shadow the Hedgehog and...? Sonic 06 was more centered around Silver and Elise than anyone and, as you said, that's the last game Shadow had a major role in...Unless you count Black Knight which was honestly a pretty good game from what I've seen and heard.

[Elija2]

I find that pretty hard to believe.

Did we play the same game?

Or they could have just used a different character or, hell, created a new one with even LESS redeeming qualities. That game isn't Shadow's fault, it's Sonic Team's for approving the idea in the first place.

I highly doubt that they would have created an entirely new Sonic character just to give them their own game. The dark story and branching story paths were also clearly inspired by Shadow as a character.

I don't recall him ever hating G.U.N, just trashing them for getting in his way (the same thing everyone else did in SA2).

GUN were the ones who killed Maria. I doubt he was ambivalent towards them like he is with everything else in that game.

You could literally replace almost every mention of the word Shadow with Sonic Team in this baseless blurb of text and have a more coherent argument.

Then we get back to what I said near the beginning of this argument. What Shadow offers to the series is being the "anti-Sonic". In terms of being a rival Knuckles and Sonic aren't very evenly matched, meanwhile Metal Sonic is generally mute meaning their chemistry in dialogue is pretty much non-existent. Shadow is the best of both worlds being that he is on equal terms with Sonic in power but also plays along with his cocky attitude to make some great dialogue. There's a point to him being in the series other being dark and edgy and that's more than you can say about someone like Elise who only exists to be a damsel in distress.

Except Shadow was the catalyst for all of those mistakes.

There didn't need to be an anti-Sonic. What does Shadow add to the series? Dialogue? Oh yeah, that great dialogue! Sonic and Shadow sure have great chemistry! Honestly, the Sonic games since Unleashed have shown that Sonic and Eggman alone have good enough rival chemistry. Shadow has never had good dialogue in any game ever because they can't give him any lines that aren't dark or brooding.

Said dark tone which was not only popular with fans of the series but existed long before Adventure 2 in the series. You do realize Shadow didn't write these stories, right? Someone sat down at their computer and asked themselves, "What do the fans and higher ups want?". That's where these stories came from. You blaming Shadow is just so you can pin the hate on something you personally dislike.

I already said that a dark tone isn't inherently bad. I'm talking about when the story is so dark and insufferably stupid but it still takes itself seriously, and Shadow's creation was the beginning of all of that.

...and those games were? Shadow the Hedgehog and...? Sonic 06 was more centered around Silver and Elise than anyone and, as you said, that's the last game Shadow had a major role in...Unless you count Black Knight which was honestly a pretty good game from what I've seen and heard.

If it weren't for SA2 and Shadow then 06 likely wouldn't have also had a terribly stupid story. They would have continued with the light-hearted tone that SA1 and Heroes had.

And no, Black Knight was terrible.

[Hakudamashi]

All I'm getting from this is that you've never played Sonic Battle, Sonic Chronicles, or watched Sonic X.

[Elija2]

All I'm getting from this is that you've never played Sonic Battle, Sonic Chronicles, or watched Sonic X.

If Shadow is only good in the spinoffs then maybe that's where he should stay.

[Hakudamashi]

Well I liked Shadow in Heroes, SA2 and 06
So as far as I'm concerned, Shadow is cool all around.

If you don't like him, that's cool.

[jkid101094]

Did we play the same game?

Every second after Sonic shows up. You can even hear the president acting dumbfounded as he and Tails break into the limo to interrupt and steal what was apparently a taped, live chat.

I highly doubt that they would have created an entirely new Sonic character just to give them their own game. The dark story and branching story paths were also clearly inspired by Shadow as a character.

They easily could have. Probability isn't the issue here. Also where did I say that Shadow didn't inspire some of the games other concepts?

GUN were the ones who killed Maria. I doubt he was ambivalent towards them like he is with everything else in that game.

Show me proof otherwise and I might believe you. They imprisoned him and he STILL couldn't give less of a damn.

Except Shadow was the catalyst for all of those mistakes.

How so?For SA2 Eggman would still be going for world domination. For heroes you could just as easily blame any of the other 12 characters. Eggman could have easily replaced Shadow in StH and the only change they'd need to make would be the morality system and integrating the weapons and vehicles into powerups for the Egg Mobile. For 06 there'd still be Silver. None of your examples have any basis because once again you're pinning the blame on a single character that could have easily been replaced in any of these games at the cost of less fun interactions with Sonic.

There didn't need to be an anti-Sonic. What does Shadow add to the series? Dialogue? Oh yeah, that great dialogue! Sonic and Shadow sure have great chemistry! Honestly, the Sonic games since Unleashed have shown that Sonic and Eggman alone have good enough rival chemistry. Shadow has never had good dialogue in any game ever because they can't give him any lines that aren't dark or brooding.

People love those cheesy lines. It's part of the series' charm.

I already said that a dark tone isn't inherently bad. I'm talking about when the story is so dark and insufferably stupid but it still takes itself seriously, and Shadow's creation was the beginning of all of that.

You know what else debuted in SA2 and reappeared in Shadow? Both the Space Colony Ark and Gerald Robotnik. Shadow didn't need to exist for them to be in the game so what would stop Sonic Team from making a dark game WITHOUT Shadow? Or hell, replacing Shadow with Metal Sonic? You could have literally had SA2's story stay perfectly the same WITHOUT Shadow. Remember that Eggman is the instigator of the plot, while Shadow only helps him along. While you might see that as more of a reason that Shadow is irrelevant I see it as a hole in your argument. Nothing was stopping the stories of these games from being brooding without Shadow, he just happened to be the best pick for the role of the anti-hero.

If it weren't for SA2 and Shadow then 06 likely wouldn't have also had a terribly stupid story. They would have continued with the light-hearted tone that SA1 and Heroes had.

How can you say that with any degree of certainty?

And no, Black Knight was terrible.

Thanks for the info, but I know a few people who'd disagree.

[Elija2]

Every second after Sonic shows up. You can even hear the president acting dumbfounded as he and Tails break into the limo to interrupt and steal what was apparently a taped, live chat.

So you agree that the president negotiating with Eggman was meant to be taken seriously?

How so?For SA2 Eggman would still be going for world domination. For heroes you could just as easily blame any of the other 12 characters. Eggman could have easily replaced Shadow in StH and the only change they'd need to make would be the morality system and integrating the weapons and vehicles into powerups for the Egg Mobile. For 06 there'd still be Silver. None of your examples have any basis because once again you're pinning the blame on a single character that could have easily been replaced in any of these games at the cost of less fun interactions with Sonic.

Sonic Team created Shadow with the explicit purpose of making SA2 a darker and more story-centric game. He symbolizes everything that went wrong with Sonic.

People love those cheesy lines. It's part of the series' charm.

But they weren't meant to be cheesy, they were meant to be taken seriously!

You know what else debuted in SA2 and reappeared in Shadow? Both the Space Colony Ark and Gerald Robotnik. Shadow didn't need to exist for them to be in the game so what would stop Sonic Team from making a dark game WITHOUT Shadow? Or hell, replacing Shadow with Metal Sonic? You could have literally had SA2's story stay perfectly the same WITHOUT Shadow. Remember that Eggman is the instigator of the plot, while Shadow only helps him along. While you might see that as more of a reason that Shadow is irrelevant I see it as a hole in your argument. Nothing was stopping the stories of these games from being brooding without Shadow, he just happened to be the best pick for the role of the anti-hero.

They could have made a dark Sonic game without Shadow, but they didn't. That's the point, that he represents why Sonic turned to shit because he was created specifically to turn Sonic into a dark and serious (aka shitty) franchise. And you can't say that he was the best pick for a role when he was literally invented to fill that specific role. A role that was already filled by Knuckles, but I guess Knuckles wasn't cool and edgy enough.

How can you say that with any degree of certainty?

Because without Shadow there wouldn't have been the uber-serious SA2 and StH, and therefore it would make little sense for them to suddenly take the serious route with 06.

[jkid101094]

So you agree that the president negotiating with Eggman was meant to be taken seriously?

Yeah, considering it's a lengthy conversation about terrorist activities that hit the public a mere two months prior or five months after (depending on which version you play) 9/11 I'd say that even on the off chance it wasn't meant to be taken seriously it probably was anyway...for Americans, at least.

Sonic Team created Shadow with the explicit purpose of making SA2 a darker and more story-centric game. He symbolizes everything that went wrong with Sonic.

You could look at it that way, or you could look at it my way and hate the creators rather than the creation.

But they weren't meant to be cheesy, they were meant to be taken seriously!

Ya know, in a forum setting an exclamation mark usually comes off as a sign of sarcasm.
Why does what they were meant to be matter so long as people love them?

They could have made a dark Sonic game without Shadow, but they didn't. That's the point, that he represents why Sonic turned to shit because he was created specifically to turn Sonic into a dark and serious (aka shitty) franchise. And you can't say that he was the best pick for a role when he was literally invented to fill that specific role. A role that was already filled by Knuckles, but I guess Knuckles wasn't cool and edgy enough.

I don't know about you but I prefer Sonic's stories to be like SA2. Yeah it's corny and filled with weird holes but it's cool to watch and I'd rather have cheesy one-liners than jokes about underwear in my Sonic games any day.

Look at Archie. They know how it's done.

Because without Shadow there wouldn't have been the uber-serious SA2 and StH, and therefore it would make little sense for them to suddenly take the serious route with 06.

Once again, you can't say that with any certainty. Sonic Adventure 2 was planned to have the Hero/Dark stories from the beginning and was (IIRC) going to be more like StH in it's initial stages. As things got changed though eventually Shadow and Rouge were added as Eggman's little helpers and the system we know today was born. Even if Shadow hadn't been conceptualized he either would have been replaced by a new character or we would have gotten StH years earlier only starring SONIC and Knuckles instead (I believe when that concept was around there was a third playable character but I can't recall if it was Shadow or not).

[Elija2]

Yeah, considering it's a lengthy conversation about terrorist activities that hit the public a mere two months prior or five months after (depending on which version you play) 9/11 I'd say that even on the off chance it wasn't meant to be taken seriously it probably was anyway...for Americans, at least.

The fact that you used the phrase "terrorist activities" to describe something in a Sonic game just goes to show how stupid the story is in SA2.

You could look at it that way, or you could look at it my way and hate the creators rather than the creation.

Or I could hate both.

Why does what they were meant to be matter so long as people love them?

Because it means that Sonic Team failed at writing serious stories but they kept trying hard to do it anyway.

I don't know about you but I prefer Sonic's stories to be like SA2. Yeah it's corny and filled with weird holes but it's cool to watch and I'd rather have cheesy one-liners than jokes about underwear in my Sonic games any day.

Look at Archie. They know how it's done.

To each their own. I think the story sucked and I know that I'm part of the majority.

Once again, you can't say that with any certainty. Sonic Adventure 2 was planned to have the Hero/Dark stories from the beginning and was (IIRC) going to be more like StH in it's initial stages. As things got changed though eventually Shadow and Rouge were added as Eggman's little helpers and the system we know today was born. Even if Shadow hadn't been conceptualized he either would have been replaced by a new character or we would have gotten StH years earlier only starring SONIC and Knuckles instead (I believe when that concept was around there was a third playable character but I can't recall if it was Shadow or not).

Actually, SA2 was originally only meant to have three playable characters: Sonic, Knuckles, and Eggman, all with their respective gameplay styles. Apparently there was some fan backlash for Tails not being playable so they came up with the idea of having two story sides and made Rouge and Shadow playable characters as well. But that's not the point. The point is that Sonic Team wanted SA2 to have a deep and serious story so they came up with Shadow as a character. Yes, I know that Shadow isn't the reason that SA2 had a dark and serious story (because the want for a dark story came before Shadow was ever conceived), but my point is that Sonic Team wanted to make a serious Sonic story and Shadow was the solution to that problem. That's why I hate him.

And no, I highly doubt they would have ever given Sonic a gun. That's the whole reason it was a Shadow game!

[jkid101094]

The fact that you used the phrase "terrorist activities" to describe something in a Sonic game just goes to show how stupid the story is in SA2.

To be fair those are their words, not mine.

Or I could hate both.

That just makes you a negative Nancy.

Because it means that Sonic Team failed at writing serious stories but they kept trying hard to do it anyway.

And a lot of the time we got memorable scenes and comedy gold out of it.

To each their own. I think the story sucked and I know that I'm part of the majority.

Being part of the majority doesn't make you right in any way but if it makes you feel better...

Actually, SA2 was originally only meant to have three playable characters: Sonic, Knuckles, and Eggman, all with their respective gameplay styles. Apparently there was some fan backlash for Tails not being playable so they came up with the idea of having two story sides and made Rouge and Shadow playable characters as well. But that's not the point. The point is that Sonic Team wanted SA2 to have a deep and serious story so they came up with Shadow as a character. Yes, I know that Shadow isn't the reason that SA2 had a dark and serious story (because the want for a dark story came before Shadow was ever conceived), but my point is that Sonic Team wanted to make a serious Sonic story and Shadow was the solution to that problem. That's why I hate him.

So the point of the matter is that you hate Shadow because his success lead the series to new lows in your eyes. OK, I can understand your disposition but then why hate on the character instead the people who carried out creating those new lows or the fans that pushed them to do so? I could understand if you hated his attitude or his face or his abilities or something but when you hate something because of a stigma that you created in your own head is when the whole thing just becomes silly. I hate the new cast of SCV not because they happened to be in the worst game in the series but because they're bland and boring characters who have no right to be carbon copy replacements of the originals. It's less of a matter of what you hate and more of a matter of whether you project that hatred onto something that deserves it.

And no, I highly doubt they would have ever given Sonic a gun. That's the whole reason it was a Shadow game!

So you are aware that exclamation points represent sarcasm. OK, then.