That Feminist Gamer Girl Did a Thing (DERAILED)

[Elija2]

Most people don't because it's easy to let the government give you free money and it's also easy to collect food stamps.

Living off of food stamps is hardly a good life. If they thought that they'd have a chance at being successful they would go for it.

No, it doesn't predominately happen to black people, it happens to everyone, regardless of race. It's just that people only notice the minorities such as blacks because of the history we have with them and they still want to make race an issue.

What do you mean people only notice minorities? Obviously the data takes everyone into account. You seriously think that they're just leaving out similar information regarding white people?

Are you fucking stupid?

No, black students are less likely to have experienced teachers than other races. Read the link that I posted.

Those courses are mandatory to graduate in the United States. So I don't know what the fuck you're on about.

Maybe if you read the link that I posted you'd have an idea.

Okay, let's take an example. This woman who wrote the article, Tunette Powell, upon googling her name, you can see what state and town she lives in on the Facebook link.



Omaha, Nebraska. One of the worst places in America to be black. If this woman planned herself a little better, then maybe she wouldn't have PLANTED HERSELF IN ONE OF THE MOST RACIST PLACES IN THE COUNTRY.

Yeah, it's so easy to just pack up and move somewhere else. If it's such a simple solution, why doesn't everyone do it?

I've been to other states with my friends on trips, and one of my Hispanic friends was called Mexican when we went to Nebraska for a college trip. She was from Venezuela. Another one of my Hispanic friends who is from the Dominican Republic was talking to my other friend in Spanish at a gas station while our bus was being filled up, and someone called them dirty beaners. I personally wasn't called anything racist during our time there so I can't speak in that respect, but I've heard complaints from other people that I know that there were less than pleasurable things said to them. Anywhere where there's a uneducated mass of people, you can count there's going to be a few racists thrown into the mix, so to say that it's just black people is so fucking close-minded.

Where did I say that only black people are subjected to racism?

Female friendly
huh
Didn't know women needed a game just for them to have fun...

I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

Reading it again, you instead implied that there are no female heroes, which is factually incorrect.

No, I implied that there are few.

You were being general.

Games in general are meant to make you feel good.

WELL
Considering the rate of sales of games with female protags versus games with male protags, yes, it is quite a lot to ask to "just make a female protag".

I'm not asking for a female protagonist (although more of them is certainly a good thing), I'm asking for less sexist representations of women in games. Nobody avoids buying a game because it's not sexist.

It's easy because saving another human being is a quick concept to get across. If you wanna be a cynic about it, then be my guest.

But why is it almost always a woman?

Bowser's goal is not to rule the world, it never was, only Mario Galaxy 1 did that. He thinks he's the best, he thinks he deserves the best. He wants Peach cause she's the prettiest, he wants to beat Mario to prove he's the best. He's not a monster, he's just a big dumb jerk, a bully, a dick with a big ego.

Bowser doesn't have to want Peach all the time.

Yes it is what we're talking about, I disagreed with Anita cause she said Peach and Zelda have no character, but they do, and their characterizations are furthered in the spin-offs, they are relevant to the point I want to get across.

Anita never said that Peach lacks character in the spinoffs, she was specifically pointing out her character in the main Mario games.

Why does Bowser always gotta be a dick? And why does Bowser never say "fuck it" and don't adventure?

Are you seriously equating the two?

Being captured by the better person makes her less of a person.
That's mean, you're mean.

It does when it's a constant in every single Zelda game.

Beause in Ocarina of Time, Zelda has a spell to completely immobilize him, why WOULDN'T he get rid of her? He can at least have a chance beating Link in a sword fight, since he has magic.
In Wind Waker, Zelda has the light arrows, which fucking rek him, and he knows it, again, why WOULDN'T he get rid of her? And again, he can beat Link in a sword fight
He weighed his options, and decided to petrify Zelda cause she's the bigger threat to him, and doesn't think much of Link.

That's not what I'm talking about. Why did the developers write for her to be kidnapped right before the end of the game when it wasn't needed to move the story along? Why wouldn't Link and Sheik just trek to Ganon's castle together?

Are you gonna be that guy? Are you either never gonna accept that there are many games with good female protags? Or will you never be satisfied until we post every game with a female protag ever made?

You're delusional if you think that the number of games with good female representation is even close to the number of games with good male representation.

[Chimmy Chonga]

symbolism

[shadowDOESrock]

Yeah, it's so easy to just pack up and move somewhere else. If it's such a simple solution, why doesn't everyone do it?

It is, though.

[Elija2]

It is, though.

Not if you can't afford to.

And seriously, how is avoiding the racism going to solve anything? It's still going to exist.

[Meme Master Flex]

Living off of food stamps is hardly a good life. If they thought that they'd have a chance at being successful they would go for it.

haha you're joking right? I know people, my own neighbors, who live off of food stamps and government assistance because it's a easy life. Public housing is accommodated to your income, so if you have a low income, you live for practically nothing. My Godmother lives in a 3 bedroom apartment for only 86 dollars a month because of public assistance. She gets all her food with, again, government assistance.

What do you mean people only notice minorities? Obviously the data takes everyone into account. You seriously think that they're just leaving out similar information regarding white people?

Yes, I do, because "WHITE PEOPLE ARE BEING LEFT BEHIND" doesn't make a good headline, and it doesn't sell.

No, black students are less likely to have experienced teachers than other races. Read the link that I posted.

Again, as a black person taking college level courses in the 11th grade, I can personally say that this argument is bullshit.

Yeah, it's so easy to just pack up and move somewhere else. If it's such a simple solution, why doesn't everyone do it?

You have to realize the profession this woman is in, and the type of works she does. So yes, I would assume it would be easy for her to move out from whatever situation she is, I mean, if I was a parent, i'd want to have the best for my kids, regardless of poverty, wouldn't you? If I was in a state that was notoriously racist, why would I want to stay there? There are far better places to live in america that are very cheap and affordable, you just have to know where to look.

Where did I say that only black people are subjected to racism?

[Meme Master Flex]

getting real tired of ur shit

[shadowDOESrock]

And seriously, how is avoiding the racism going to solve anything? It's still going to exist.

It is going to exist forever.

You can't expect everywhere, everyone, and everything to be flowers and butterflies.

[Hakudamashi]

No, I implied that there are few.

Then pick ur words more carefully.

Games in general are meant to make you feel good.

No
games are an interactive medium to entertain, that is not limited to making you feel good.

I'm not asking for a female protagonist (although more of them is certainly a good thing), I'm asking for less sexist representations of women in games. Nobody avoids buying a game because it's not sexist.

Which is happening, maybe not at the speed or frequency you want, but it's happening, and we're playing and loving them.

But why is it almost always a woman?

Male writer
Male writes about saving a woman
Not hard to figure out.

Bowser doesn't have to want Peach all the time.

Don't tell Bowser what to want, Who are you to tell Bowser what to want?

Anita never said that Peach lacks character in the spinoffs, she was specifically pointing out her character in the main Mario games.

Well I still disagree with her, on Peach having no character in the main games, and her not including the spin-offs when talking about Peach.

Are you seriously equating the two?

Yes

It does when it's a constant in every single Zelda game.

I disagree

That's not what I'm talking about. Why did the developers write for her to be kidnapped right before the end of the game when it wasn't needed to move the story along? Why wouldn't Link and Sheik just trek to Ganon's castle together?

Zelda was prepped for the final battle, so she wanted to come clean to Link, and they talked, for that characterisation n' shit.
But I'm sure none of that matters to you, since the point is "she got kidnapped ohnoes"

You're delusional if you think that the number of games with good female representation is even close to the number of games with good male representation.

Quality over Quantity.

[Chimmy Chonga]

Yes, racism and sexism will just poof away! Like magic! All we have to do is BELIEVE!

GATA RAISE AWARENESS GAIS

[Elija2]

haha you're joking right? I know people, my own neighbors, who live off of food stamps and government assistance because it's a easy life. Public housing is accommodated to your income, so if you have a low income, you live for practically nothing. My Godmother lives in a 3 bedroom apartment for only 86 dollars a month because of public assistance. She gets all her food with, again, government assistance.

That's anecdotal. You can't say that it's true for the majority of black people, especially since many of them really are poor.

Yes, I do, because "WHITE PEOPLE ARE BEING LEFT BEHIND" doesn't make a good headline, and it doesn't sell.

No you don't, you're just making shit up with no evidence.

Again, as a black person taking college level courses in the 11th grade, I can personally say that this argument is bullshit.

Well I guess your anecdotal evidence is more reliable that actual research.

You have to realize the profession this woman is in, and the type of works she does. So yes, I would assume it would be easy for her to move out from whatever situation she is, I mean, if I was a parent, i'd want to have the best for my kids, regardless of poverty, wouldn't you? If I was in a state that was notoriously racist, why would I want to stay there? There are far better places to live in america that are very cheap and affordable, you just have to know where to look.

Exactly. If she had the ability to move away, she likely would have. And yet many black people still live in these cities.

It is going to exist forever.

You can't expect everywhere, everyone, and everything to be flowers and butterflies.

It is if people like you keep coming up with terrible excuses to defend it.

No
games are an interactive medium to entertain, that is not limited to making you feel good.

Well it's purpose certainly isn't to demean your gender.

Which is happening, maybe not at the speed or frequency you want, but it's happening, and we're playing and loving them.

Yes, because people like Anita are advocating for them.

Male writer
Male writes about saving a woman
Not hard to figure out.

And does that make it not sexist?

Don't tell Bowser what to want, Who are you to tell Bowser what to want?

Bowser is a fictional character, he can want whatever Nintendo wants him to want. For whatever reason Nintendo choose to make him want Peach over and over again.

Well I still disagree with her, on Peach having no character in the main games, and her not including the spin-offs when talking about Peach.

I don't really see how you can disagree. What characterization does Peach have in the main games?

Her whole point was that Peach is treated differently in the main games than she is in the spinoffs.

Yes

Bowser being a villain doesn't demean him. Peach being the damsel in distress does demean her.

Zelda was prepped for the final battle, so she wanted to come clean to Link, and they talked, for that characterisation n' shit.
But I'm sure none of that matters to you, since the point is "she got kidnapped ohnoes"

She could have come clean without exposing herself.

Quality over Quantity.

The quantity of quality games with good male representation is much higher than the quantity of quality games with good female representation.

[Hakudamashi]

Bowser being a villain doesn't demean him. Peach being the damsel in distress does demean her.

If Bowser being a big selfish jerk that kidnaps women doesn't demean him, then Peach not being a tough girl that can't slay monsters doesn't demean her.
Not to me.
[/quote]

It is if people like you keep coming up with terrible excuses to defend it.

u wot?

Well it's purpose certainly isn't to demean your gender.

Unless the developer wants it to be so.

Yes, because people like Anita are advocating for them.

My main source is totalbuscuit and the brainscratchcomms.

And does that make it not sexist?

The better question is "Do I care?" And the answer is "no."

Bowser is a fictional character

If you're gonna bring that up, then why should we care about any of them? They're just fictional figments of imagination made realised through technology created for the purpose of engaging the player to play through the video game.
Which is more reason for the damsel in distress trope
"We gotta get players to give a shit, what do?"
"Make 'em save a pretty lady"
"Got it"

I don't really see how you can disagree. What characterization does Peach have in the main games?

I already said, go back.

Her whole point was that Peach is treated differently in the main games than she is in the spinoffs.

So is everyone, cause Bowser's not being a dick in the case of the sports games
In terms of the RPGs, she's not treated different, they just made them talk more.

She could have come clean without exposing herself.

Well she wanted to expose herself, deal with it.

The quantity of quality games with good male representation is much higher than the quantity of quality games with good female representation.

There may be less, but there's still alot, and more coming, so I'm comfortable.

[shadowDOESrock]

It is if people like you keep coming up with terrible excuses to defend it.

... I don't think you understand how the world functions outside of your bubble.

Well, you certainly lost my attention at this very moment, so I'm done.

[Hakudamashi]

so I'm done.

You've said that before...

[Elija2]

u wot?

You yourself even said that you don't care if sexism and racism are portrayed in games.

Unless the developer wants it to be so.

Okay, but by overusing sexist tropes they are being demeaning to women.

The better question is "Do I care?" And the answer is "no."

So again, you don't care if women are terribly represented in games.

If you're gonna bring that up, then why should we care about any of them? They're just fictional figments of imagination made realised through technology created for the purpose of engaging the player to play through the video game.
Which is more reason for the damsel in distress trope
"We gotta get players to give a shit, what do?"
"Make 'em save a pretty lady"
"Got it"

I'm saying that he doesn't have to aid in perpetuating sexist tropes but that's how he's written. It could just as easily be "Make 'em save a magic space rock." You can't say "that's not what Bowser wants" when what Bowser wants can be anything the writers want it to be.

I already said, go back.

You said that Peach's characterization is that she's a princess, but that information only exists to contextualize Mario's story. What characterization does she have that exists for her own sake?

So is everyone, cause Bowser's not being a dick in the case of the sports games
In terms of the RPGs, she's not treated different, they just made them talk more.

I mean that she's not treated as lesser than anyone else. In the main games she's treated as less than a freaking toad.

If Bowser being a big selfish jerk that kidnaps women doesn't demean him, then Peach not being a tough girl that can't slay monsters doesn't demean her.

Being a big selfish jerk isn't demeaning.

Well she wanted to expose herself, deal with it.

She doesn't want anything, she's a fictional character. She has no agency. Everything she does is because she was written that way. If she does something dumb, you can't say "it's cause she wanted to do that." No, her writers wanted her to do that.

There may be less, but there's still alot, and more coming, so I'm comfortable.

So I guess you have people like Anita to thank for that?

... I don't think you understand how the world functions outside of your bubble.

Says the person who doesn't consider the word "jap" to be offensive because nobody he knows minds it, and says the person who thinks that the use of sexist tropes against women in videogames doesn't affect our perception of women in real life. Or at least that's what you said in the last thread we had about sexism, which interestingly doesn't seem to exist anymore. I wonder why.

[Hakudamashi]

Okay, but by overusing sexist tropes they are being demeaning to women.

Well we're at an impasse. I don't find being saved demeaning,

So again, you don't care if women are terribly represented in games.

I don't care that they exist, no.

I'm saying that he doesn't have to aid in perpetuating sexist tropes but that's how he's written. It could just as easily be "Make 'em save a magic space rock." You can't say "that's not what Bowser wants" when what Bowser wants can be anything the writers want it to be.

She doesn't want anything, she's a fictional character. She has no agency. Everything she does is because she was written that way. If she does something dumb, you can't say "it's cause she wanted to do that." No, her writers wanted her to do that.

If stripping away everything about a character and seeing them as nothing more than puppets of their writers is how you enjoy your video games, then have fun with that.
That's now how I think.

You said that Peach's characterization is that she's a princess, but that information only exists to contextualize Mario's story. What characterization does she have that exists for her own sake?

Being gentle, soft-spoken, graceful, ditzy, liking gardens and a bit of a ditz are not things inherent with being a Princess, that's who Peach is, and she's also good at baking, that's her skill. She has traits and characterisation to define her as Princess Peach Toadstool, so say she has no character is just incorrect, whether or not she has enough character for you is a different issue.

I mean that she's not treated as lesser than anyone else. In the main games she's treated as less than a freaking toad.

How'd you figure that?

Being a big selfish jerk isn't demeaning.

By your standards
But by my standards, I think it's demeaning that this male goes to the lengths of violence to get what he wants. And what does he want? Women and power
Everything always boils down to women and power. Why is a man's motivation always women, or power, sometimes both? Men can be more complex than that, they have other interests than women and power.
And why is he angry? Why are men always so angry? We don't even get context why he's so angry, he just is.
It's demeaning that the man is always the aggro jerk that makes like difficult for everyone, always for women and power, because men totally have no other motivations and don't know how to think rationally.

But hey, that's just my opinion, my take on what I find demeaning.

So I guess you have people like Anita to thank for that?

I dunno, do I? What was her role in helping me find all these games? Did she help develop these games? Is she a writing consultant?